Posted by Calnotary on 9/6/07 6:49pm
Msg #209702

Opinions on this email from SS.

Dear Value Notary,

As you already know, the mortgage industry has been going through some pretty rough times lately. Every single one of my clients (10 of them) have closed their doors, and we are owed over $18,000 in closing invoices that honestly, I don't know if we will ever see. We had another $2,000 worth of checks bounce when we tried to cash them We have added some new clients, but the volume of business has gone down substantially.

Although we fully expect business to pick up again, we have no control over when that occurs. We have every intention of paying any notaries that have done any business for us, but it is very difficult to say when payment will occur at this time. We ask you to please be patient as we will certainly keep you up to date on when payment will go out, but please know that you will absolutely be paid by us no matter what it takes! When payment is sent out, we will email each one of you so you will know that the payment is on it's way. If you have any questions or concerns whatsoever, please feel free to contact us. We have been out of the office a lot lately trying to recruit new clients as that is the only way we're going to get back on our feet.

We are constantly looking for new clients, and if any of you know of any nationwide title companies or lenders that are still in business and are also still giving out loans, please send their information our way. If we receive a closing order that is in your area of coverage, we will absolutely send the business your way and you get the entire closing fee. Also, if there is a company that ends up giving us business, we will give you $10 per file for your referral for every closing we conduct for that company. We have forms that we will gladly sign stating the above information.

Thanks so much, and we look forward to sending you business from our new clients soon along with paying you for your past work.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/6/07 7:13pm
Msg #209706

Here's my response....

Dear SS,

I am well aware that the mortgage industry is currently circling the toilet. However, you contracted with me to perform a service and I expect you to pay me for that service.

The fact that you're waiting on $18,000 in invoices and have had another $2,000 in bounced checks is your problem, not mine. I did what you asked me to do, and I expect to be paid for it in a timely fashion. I did not agree to float you a loan, and if you intend to delay payment I expect to receive interest on the amount owed to me.

If you think this is harsh, try running this same sad story by your phone company, electric company, or leasing agent and see how far you'll get.

Thanks so much, and I look forward to receiving a check for the amount you owe me within the next week.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 9/6/07 7:58pm
Msg #209712

Re: Here's my response....

Mike, I'm sorry, but your response borders on the ludicrous.

If >>your<< business tanks, you are going to do what you have to do to resuscitate it, assuming that is a reasonable possibility. If that requires delaying paying your Staples account in full, that's what you'll do. This company is doing the same thing, and in a most responsible fashion. It has told the creditor the problem, has told the creditor its proposed solution, and has promised to make the creditor whole. The only thing that the company has not done is establish a time frame in which to complete payment, and from the tenor of the post, I would assume that the only reason that has not been done is that the company is incapable of doing so at this time.

Running a business is always a matter of vicissitudes, and often the viss is less than the tude. Sometimes it's a lot less, in which case emails like the one in question go out.

As for the analogy with phone company, electric company, and leasing agent, it holds about as much water as cheesecloth. You continue to accrue liabilities with all three of those agencies, so certainly they expect you to remain current on your obligations if you expect to continue to receive service. If a signing agent continues to provide service to an SS in trouble, the SA could also be expected to demand payment for prior service, or no future service would be provided.

Finally, as a practical matter, several things can happen here. Among them are: The SS can indeed get paid in full when the company has the resources to do so. He or she can even be given preferential treatment in payment if the SA has been cooperative in the company's financial crisis. The SA can get paid partially before the company goes under. The SA who demonstrates no willingness to work with a company in trouble can be put to the back of the line for those waiting payment. The company can simply refuse to pay the SA at all. Note that being hardnosed can lead to some quite unpleasant outcomes.

Since ultimately the signing agent appears to be somewhat dependent for payment on the goodwill of the troubled company, the better part of wisdom to me would be to try to work with the people. I always find a paycheck, even a belated one, more satisfying than electronic bluster.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/6/07 8:59pm
Msg #209728

I have to agree w/Hugh on this -more flies w/honey than vine n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/6/07 10:54pm
Msg #209737

I agree with Hugh...

This guy is at least being transparent and facing the issue head on. I'd much rather deal with someone who is being honest than someone who ends up skipping out or plays games and just delays payment indefinitely or doesn't pay at all.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/7/07 12:34pm
Msg #209790

Re: Here's my response....

Hugh, I think "ludicrous" might be a bit strong, but whatever floats your boat...

What I wrote was intended to be facetious, but what we have here is the classic case of a business that ran head first into the uncomfortable fact that it is woefully undercapitalized - and who's to blame for that? The ones who usually gets screwed in the end are the SAs who do the actual work, but then are always at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to being paid.

Why should the SA finance the company's operations by foregoing payment? If $20K in receivables is turning your business on its head, you've obviously been working on a shoestring and probably shouldn't have opened your doors in the first place. Get a loan, mortgage your house, do whatever you can to pay the people who did the work for you NOW, not at some point in the future, and then sort out your financial problems. Don't penalize others for your own financial irresponsibility.

That being said, I agree with you that taking an aggressive stance is not necessarily going to help you get paid in this situation. Taking a submissive stance isn't necessarily going to be helpful either, however - all you can do is hope that he gets his act together while you wait patiently for a check that (given the lack of a time frame for payment) may never materialize.

Reply by JamesLee/VA on 9/7/07 6:24pm
Msg #209863

Is it Sunshine Signing In Florida? n/m

Reply by Diana/FL on 9/6/07 7:14pm
Msg #209707

Is this SS out of FL? I had almost the same conversation recently asking for patience. They advised their doors have closed however, absolutely promised I would receive payment. I agreed to be patient and wait but my electric company doesn't have the same patience.

Reply by Steven Carter on 9/6/07 8:09pm
Msg #209717

I have personally worked for and with Steve and he is in California for those interested. The one in Florida is Sunshine Signing Services. He has always paid and I believe he has had good reviews on this site. I was also assisting him in some of his PA loans to obtain notaries as well. I have personally been paid by him and am reaching out to him to see if there is something I can do to assist him while he tries to rebuild.

I will also agree that there is not much that us as notaries and signing agents can do but we can try. Give him some time and work things out. Be happy that he let his notaries know what happened and that he does plan on paying but it will be some time before that happens, he is also a notary and a closer as well. He could have just shut down the phones and been done with it. I think we are all seing this to be more common than not. We have all been burned in the past but right now we have to watch what we are doing and stay on top of the signing services for payment. Good luck to all of you that are owed money and we can hope for a quick resolution to all the problems out there right now.

Reply by Templin on 9/6/07 9:54pm
Msg #209732

Steve C I have to agree also. He does pay and on time. At least he was kind enough to send a message out to everyone and just not answer his phones or respond to emails...I understand that we, notary's, have bills also that can not wait.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 9/7/07 12:12am
Msg #209739

Well, sometimes it's a tough call. Somehow, the regular companies that I have done business with and that have paid on time don't seem to have this problem. If they did, I would work with them because until now, they paid on time. But then you have some companies that seem to have payment problems regardless of the market.

Case in point, a few weeks ago I was called and given much the same message. They even said that the three they owed me for did not fund. Unfortunately for them, I personally knew one of the clients well enough to call them and ask if their loan did in fact fund. When they told me yes, I went down to the county recorder and found that the other two had also funded. I continued down to Orange County where the SS office is located and presented them with the evidence and collected the check in person, took it right to the bank it was drawn on and cashed it.

While I will share the pain with the companies that have always treated me well, I have no tolerance for garbage like this. So my answer would be trust, but verify .... and if they are blowing smoke, don't put up with it.

Reply by KathiAZ on 9/7/07 5:52pm
Msg #209860

I just go this today. I only worked once for this person.

That makes me think he was looking for someone he could "not" pay.
I got a call around 9PM on July 27th to do this edoc signing. I was already in my PJ's. I got the docs, called the borrower, she had to get her husband out of bed. I got home after 11, had to finish up, and now I will not get paid. I am sure he got paid for this one service, and can send that payment on to me.....

Reply by JamesLee/VA on 9/7/07 6:22pm
Msg #209862

Check you P/M please. n/m