Posted by kcg on 9/14/07 4:55pm
Msg #211078

Question...

I did a signing today (FHA) which included 48 pages from title with specific instructions that these pages were to be signed and dated 8.15.07. These included an HUD, FHA app, 1003, etc. I did not have to notarize any so it was not an issue...I've just never seen that before. Now, there was a TIL in that package which had a PPP. The BO was reluctant to sign it but the boyfriend (who was reading the pages with her) said go ahead.

Now, we get to the lender's package and the TIL in that one had NO PPP and there was no Prepayment Rider to the note. I encouraged her to call her LO which she would not do but expressed relief that there was no PPP. I am guessing that since the TIL in the lender's package showed no PPP, this is the one which will override the T/C's package.

I told her I could not give her an answer, that only her LO could but her and the boyfriend seemed satisfied with the Lender's TIL.

Has anyone ever seen a package like this? Where there is a package from title backdated by borrower AND 2 different TIL's?

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/14/07 5:01pm
Msg #211083

What? You don't know what broker disclosures are?

Get real. Backdated? How long have you been doing this and getting away with not knowing how to do your job?

This is pathetic.

Reply by kcg on 9/14/07 5:05pm
Msg #211086

Re: What? You don't know what broker disclosures are?

Becca - I did not backdate anything. The package from the title was to be dated by the BO with her signature. All the lender docs were today's date and all my notarizations were today's date....on the ID page in that package where I ID'd her, I signed today's date. I have Never backdated anything.

My question was if anyone has seen a package with 2 TIL's with different terms.

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/14/07 5:09pm
Msg #211089

Yes to two TILs

I was confused by that when I first started this too, but had it explained to me that one was the "preliminary" TIL and the other was the "Final". I looked and sure enough each one was marked that way at the top of the TIL. They also might be dated differently at the top.

If they are both marked Final and one is for Title and one is for the Lender, I would just reiterate the 3 day RTC and have them call their LO ASAP, since you say the terms on each are different.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/14/07 5:40pm
Msg #211100

Re: What? You don't know what broker disclosures are?

Yes I've seen tils with different terms. It's not unusual.

Reply by nm on 9/14/07 5:05pm
Msg #211085

You've got to be kidding

You back dated...I cannot beleive what I was reading...shame shame

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/14/07 5:06pm
Msg #211087

YOU'VE got to be kidding

Backdating disclosures is very common. It's backdating your notarizations that's illegal.

Reply by kcg on 9/14/07 5:09pm
Msg #211088

Re: Thank you for reading my post correctly

I NEVER backdated anything.........never have, never will.

Reply by spnotaryplus on 9/14/07 5:15pm
Msg #211092

Re: Thank you for reading my post correctly

Usually there is a early disclosure package that goes out to the borrower prior to final documents being printed. This way the borrower knows what they are entitled to sign at closing. However as with the case with my closing today the borrowers may not take out the time to look at the paperwork before closing.

Stupid but true.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/14/07 5:37pm
Msg #211097

Re: Thank you for reading my post correctly

I read your post correctly, you did not read mine correctly. How long have you been "certified" and you have no clue what broker docs are or what there purpose is? Amazing!

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/14/07 5:36pm
Msg #211096

Re: You've got to be kidding

I never said she backdated. I said "Backdated?" Meaning nothing was backdated and if she does not know that it is very common to have broker disclosures in a pkg that need to be dated for the application date or the date the terms were updated is ridiculous.

Someone needs to demand that the NNA send back the money she paid to become "certified." What a joke!

No wonder the idiots are still flocking to this industry. Idiots have been making money at it, not having the first clue for this long...WTH not.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/14/07 5:39pm
Msg #211098

The pages that were backdated are probably the date the loan app was taken.
Was there a ROTC? what date was on it? And there wasn't a DOT? Maybe someone else closed this loan and you are doing the followup.
I've closed a lot of FHA loans but nothing like this.

Reply by MichiganAl on 9/14/07 6:24pm
Msg #211110

They're just the RESPA docs (or broker docs)

They were to be dated 8/15/07 because they were preliminary docs. Lenders sometimes provide these docs at the time of the application, but need to get signed copies before close. I personally think it's common sense to figure out that they were preliminary docs based on the type of docs they are (application, permission to check credit and employment, good faith estimate of fees) and the date request. If you're not sure, you call the t.c. as soon as you see the instructions (and you read the instructions BEFORE you leave for the borrower's house, right?) and get a clarification so you didn't stress out the borrower.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/14/07 6:51pm
Msg #211116

It's not uncommon to see this - sometimes the borrower never returned signed copies of the original docs, and the lender/TC needs a signed copy for their file. They can date it anyway they want, as long as you're not asked to notarize it with that date...

Don't assume that the lender's docs override the TC docs. Check the document date; the one with the most current date is usually what counts. If I have time before the signing (and am not told to keep the docs in order), I break down the package and get the important docs up front. It helps me to present the package in a more logical manner, and immediately flags potential problems like this. Even if the package has to be split between lender and TC, a quick scan of the primary docs would avoid this kind of confusion.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/15/07 1:19pm
Msg #211295

I also suspect that sometimes the LOs don't quite get around to sending out the preliminary docs when they should, so they are included in the package and want the borrowers' signatures dated for when they should have been signed, rather than the "closing" date.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/15/07 1:35pm
Msg #211298

Re: Question...and I suspect

that the disclosures are signed at the time of signing with the appropriate date affixed because the package is going to be sold, or has been sold, and this is insurance that everything has been taken care of...in triplicate if necessary.