Posted by DD/OR on 4/24/08 9:40pm
Msg #244933

Closing Quest

On several signings I did, I noticed that the Title co. inserted a page in the package that the borrower had to sign. It read, "if the borrower cancels the loan for any reason, then he/she has to pay the notary fee." This gave me an idea. So I started inserting a page that the borrower signs that says," if the notary public doesn't get paid for any reason, then the borrower pays the fee". I'm glad I started doing this, because I can collect from the borrower if Closing Quest doesn't pay up. I gave them 3 days. All you other notaries may want to do the same thing. DD.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/24/08 9:46pm
Msg #244935

If a company ever found out you were doing this they would stop hiring you.
It is one thing for the company to insert such a page. But the borrower has no contract with the notary, the hiring company does. The borrower is paying the signing fee in their closing costs, if the title company or signing service fails to pay you then your beef is with them.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/24/08 9:54pm
Msg #244936

Not a good idea to add your own documents to a closing package, especially if you attempt to bind the BO to something they didn't originally agree to with the lender or TC.

Your contract is with whoever hired you; you can't arbitrarily decide to bring someone else into it. The BO has already paid for notary services, so your beef is with the TC or SS that refuses to pay you - you have no claim against the BO. I think you could be opening yourself up to a lot of problems by doing this.

Reply by DD/OR on 4/24/08 10:13pm
Msg #244937

I don't agree. I've talked to an attorney about this. I'm an Independent business and can run my business my way. Sure a company can refuse to use me and that's fine. I just want to insure that I get paid. Other people get paid up front. In fact lately, I've had several companys pay me first, which was nice. Its the way I choose to do business, which is my right.

Reply by Pat/IL on 4/24/08 11:17pm
Msg #244944

Sylvia, Mike and Philip are right. And I'll even add that those title companies are probably sitting ducks for future troubles by inserting their page. Here's what the Truth In Lending Act (reg. z) says about the borrower's obligation upon cancellation:

"(d) Effects of rescission. (1) When a consumer rescinds a transaction, the security interest giving rise to the right of rescission becomes void and the consumer shall not be liable for any amount, including any finance charge. "

Reply by DD/OR on 4/24/08 11:27pm
Msg #244946

No, they are wrong. The TIL statement you quoted pertains to the loan itself and loan charges. It doesn't pertain to the notary fee, which is a totally separate entity.

Reply by GA/Atty on 4/25/08 12:15am
Msg #244950

The lawyer gave you bad advice. He's wrong.

Telling a borrower they are obligated to pay your notary fee on a cancelled loan is a lie at best, and very likely a crime. You are not allowed to run your business *your way* if your way violates the law (RESPA).

Reply by DD/OR on 4/25/08 12:39am
Msg #244954

Re: The lawyer gave you bad advice. He's wrong.

No, he's right. You don't sound like an attorney. Anyone can say they're an attorney.

Reply by Becca_FL on 4/25/08 8:46am
Msg #244978

Can you say "unjust enrichment?" n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/25/08 8:54am
Msg #244980

Re: The lawyer gave you bad advice. He's wrong.

GA/Atty is a real attorney!

Imagine you are the borrower. You take out a loan for which you have paid all closing costs. A couple of months after getting the loan, the notary demands you pay her/him her fee as the signing company/title company have refused to pay her/him for whatever reason.
Do you really think you should pay the fee again to the notary????

Ga/Atty is correct, your lawyer is 100% wrong.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/25/08 9:01am
Msg #244981

Re: The lawyer gave you bad advice. He's wrong. PS

GA/Atty has been a member of the GA bar since May 1996.
How do we know you are a bona fide notary, anyone can say they are a notary!

Reply by desktopfull on 4/25/08 8:08am
Msg #244972

Re: The lawyer gave you bad advice. He's wrong.

You are absolutely correct, the RESPA protects the borrower from you going after them for your fees. Already informed of this by an attorney that specializes in real estate and title work. He said that if a contract was in violation of the law, then it is an illegal agreement will not be upheld in court. Not to mention the Fed's coming after you for violating the RESPA.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 4/24/08 10:33pm
Msg #244939

Which fee will you hold them to?

I assume you are listing your fee on this document? On the other hand, why not just collect your fee at the table and skip the middle man? Also on this form are you stating how long your true employer has to pay you, before you collect from the borrower? I'm not a lawyer, but once you move on a borrower and try to enforce this page and you meet his/her lawyer I don't see good things in your future.

Reply by DD/OR on 4/24/08 11:16pm
Msg #244943

Re: Which fee will you hold them to?

Oh yes, I have a good future. I'm doing just fine, thank you. Be concerned about your own future. People should mind their own business. It's MY business and I intend to run it MY WAY as I always have. I'm not worried about companies not calling me. I have plenty of work from companys that I have a good relationship with. The kind of company that would not use my service, I don't want to do business with anyway. I will only collect from the borrower as a last resort. I would charge exactly what I would charge the SS. I'm tired of running after my money and trying to collect. I won't again.

Reply by Gary_CA on 4/25/08 12:11am
Msg #244949

The chicken and the egg

"People should mind their own business. It's MY business and I intend to run it MY WAY as I always have."

Well, of course, but when you post your way of doing business on a public message board it's for public discussion and exchange of ideas, no??? What am I missing here.

You put out an idea, some folks offered their opinion that the idea might be flawed. That's what we're here for. If all you want is adulation and no opinion, tell it to your dog.

P.S. I think it's abusive. When I go to my local restaurant and buy an omelet it doesn't give the chicken the right to collect the cost of the eggs from me if the restaurant doesn't pay. In fact, I don't even want to think about my restaurant's relationship with the chicken, I just want to drink my coffee and eat my omelet... for which I am willing to pay, once, to the restaurant

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/25/08 1:01am
Msg #244955

Re: The chicken and the egg

Not only did DD/OR put that idea out there, (s)he was suggesting that others follow it. That begs for differing opinions to be offered, especially in a circumstance like this. It's one thing to do business your own way, but to try to encourage others to do something this risky is another thing altogether!

Reply by jba/fl on 4/25/08 1:27am
Msg #244956

Re: The chicken and the egg - Nice analogy! n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 4/25/08 3:17am
Msg #244960

People should mind their own business?

You are bringing your business to people.
Dixie, here you go again.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/25/08 4:23am
Msg #244962

Yep, Dixie is off and running again

What happened to your last powerhouse idea that we argued for two days over? You finally gave up making them pay before they signed?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 4/25/08 11:27am
Msg #245004

Sue, apparently that didn't work out for her....

Msg #163655

Reply by desktopfull on 4/25/08 8:22am
Msg #244974

Are you even sending a signed original of this document back

with the documents to the TC? If not, you are returning an incomplete package to the TC. They are supposed to get every page the borrower has signed. I'll bet you aren't and I'll bet you aren't even letting the TC's or SS's know you are doing this.

Have you ever read the TC's instructions from the lender? The instructions list every document that will be included in the package that was approved by the underwriter's as allowable by each State's laws and the Federal laws. I seriously doubt any underwriter would allow your document to be included with the loan documents. You are really digging a deep hole for yourself and I hope others don't follow your advice.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/26/08 2:34am
Msg #245141

Ok, after seeing your posts in several threads

I have come to the conclusion that you are a complete idiot.

But you are right about one thing, you can run your business however you choose. However most people would probably make the effort to run their business in a way that leads to more business instead of your way, which appears to be trying to ensure that you can get as many companies as possible to never use your services again. Good luck with that sweetie.