Posted by NotaryGirl71 on 4/7/08 4:20pm
Msg #242534

Countrywide Docs are getting longer and longer...

and they still want to pay the same even though we are doing so much more work.

Whenever I get an e-doc from them I no longer print out their 27 page closing instructions...also on the borrower copy I only print out what the borrower actually signed...not all the other docs...this just saved me a total of 95 pages on a signing I am doing today.

I'm sorry but paper and ink are not getting any cheaper!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/08 4:48pm
Msg #242537

"also on the borrower copy I only print out what the borrower actually signed...not all the other docs...this just saved me a total of 95 pages on a signing I am doing today."

Curious how you determined what other 68 pages were not necessary for the borrower to have...that sounds like an awful lot got left out..MHO

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 4/7/08 4:57pm
Msg #242538

I go thru it page by page

Reply by Roger Proctor Sr on 4/7/08 5:04pm
Msg #242540

JMO - I can see your point in not including the 27 or so instruction pages but I think the borrower has a right to receive copies of the remainder of the loan package, like i said JMO.

Reply by lindetteh_PA on 4/7/08 5:06pm
Msg #242541

What happens when a borrower ask's why their package seem so small. With everthing on the news about mortgage fraud seems to me your opening yourself up to have to explain to the TC, SS or LO why you went to a closing without the entire package. When I except there closing I make sure I charge accordingly I would never want to short change a borrower or give them any reason to question their loan because I was scared to quote a fair price for the job.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/08 5:13pm
Msg #242542

I understand you go through it page by page

How do you determine which pages the borrrower is not entitled to?

Reply by Roger_OH on 4/7/08 6:31pm
Msg #242563

You're exposing yourself to a lot of potential grief...

You're being paid a print fee to provide a complete copy of the package to the borrower; and I think the TC would not be happy to know that you're making a determination about what docs the borrower does or doesn't get. Geez, on a 15-page mortgage, you only give them a copy of the signature page? Think there might be some important information on those other pages? Same with the note - you only give them the sig page and don't bother with page 1 which has their loan amount, rate, term, payment, payment date, and prepayment info?

In these days of fraud and consumer misinformation, I'd agree that failure to provide complete disclosure to the borrowers so that YOU can save a buck is a breach of our signing agent ethics; if I were the borrower, I'd be coming after YOU if anything went wrong because of something that was on one of those "missing' pages YOU decided not to include.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/08 6:41pm
Msg #242565

Re: You're exposing yourself to a lot of potential grief...

I think what she's saying is she doesn't print an extra copy for the borrower of any documents in the package that doesn't require a borrower signature. If they sign a document then they get a copy of that entire document. I could be wrong but I think that's what she meant.

I can understand not giving them the 23-24 pages of CW instructions (although I include those also but many don't), but as for the rest of it, I disagree with her - not our call to decide what can be pulled from the borrower's package. JMHO

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/8/08 4:27am
Msg #242615

"I go thru it page by page"

And you save what, a dollar's worth of ink and toner? How much extra time does it take you to sift through page by page instead of just hitting "print" and being done with it? I'm willing to bet it's a hell of a lot more than a dollar or two's worth.

Reply by MichiganAl on 4/7/08 7:17pm
Msg #242574

Closing instructions I understand

They're not for the borrower. But boy you're getting yourself in a heap of trouble deciding what the borrower needs and what they don't. What makes you think you have the legal right to make that determination? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Reply by Pat/CA on 4/7/08 7:20pm
Msg #242576

Yikes!

I can't say I know the laws involved here and don't have time to research them, but it appears amongst others, you may be violating some consumer rights. Over the years I have referred back to all my loan documents time and time again. When one sells a property their are things within them that you add back to the basis of the property to reduce your capital gain. Oh, there's just so many things one may need those copies for that I encourage you to print the entire package.

I'm not even sure if errors and omissions fall under this category also, but you are omitting a huge porportion of their papers.

Please be careful, you may very well be putting your entire business at risk.

If it's any consolation, I do not like Countrywide's docs either... they have gotten ridiculous! And I won't do their loans unless they meet my $$$ fee, which they won't... and we need to stand united with them on the $$$ because we are all losing!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/08 7:25pm
Msg #242577

Unless she has a rider covering her for her loan signings

her E&O only covers notarial errors.... she'd need a professional liability policy, or the equivalent, to be covered for errors made as a Signing Agent.

Reply by Pat/CA on 4/7/08 7:30pm
Msg #242579

You're right! I just couldn't get my "alert, urgent"

message out quick enough when I read this. All those terms popped in my head and I'd forgotten the E & O only covers notarial errors. Thanks.

Please no offense to the poster, we're trying to help you avoid disaster!

Reply by Trinity Mobile Notary and Signing Agency - Notary and Processing on 4/7/08 7:57pm
Msg #242584

Re: You're right! I just couldn't get my "alert, urgent"

She can just as easily email the package to the client right? I am not saying pick and choose the pages because thats a sticky situation in it self but I can understand not printing two sets of docs and not printing the closing instructions.

She can also stand her ground with her fee or not do any work for the company. Countrywide calls us at least twice a week and we turn them down because they wont meet our terms.

If we just stand united they will meet our simple and uncomplex demands.

Reply by Pat/CA on 4/7/08 8:17pm
Msg #242592

IF that was agreed upon beforehand...

with it stated in the confirmation, then perhaps. Who knows the legalities of that though? I surely don't.

What with e-docs soon to become nationwide (another disaster and hassle) it's hard to know what can and can't be done without being liable. To me, I'd have to arrive at their house and visually see my email, then open the docs and inspect them to ensure everything is there as their copy. So just as I have no idea what they do with their hard copy of the docs once I leave, I wouldn't know what they did with the attachments, but at least I visually saw them. JMO

I never print 2 sets of CI either (learned the hard way of course!).

It's the standing united that will turn things around with CW since I feel their demands are the worst for their pay.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/8/08 4:31am
Msg #242616

Re: You're right! I just couldn't get my "alert, urgent"

"If we just stand united they will meet our simple and uncomplex demands."

That is beyond naive. Pure union mentality, which is the complete opposite of what we are. An industry full of self employed individuals is never going to unite on anything, there are thousands upon thousands of signing agents just waiting for the opportunity to get in and undercut their competition.

Reply by JK/TX on 4/7/08 7:59pm
Msg #242585

Re: You're right! I just couldn't get my "alert, urgent"

<<<,,,,,,, also on the borrower copy I only print out what the borrower actually signed...not all the other docs...this just saved me a total of 95 pages.....>>>>>

I'm trying to get my head around the sight of the pkg. the borrower is left with...?...(ex. pg. 3 of a 4 pg. document, pg. 2 of a 2 pg. doc, etc....?)

yikes~!! If I were the borrower, I'd be po'd.

go up on your print fee for CW docs..... and I agree, the size of their pkg's just keeps growing and many dup docs!!

Reply by Ndwa on 4/8/08 12:00am
Msg #242608

OMG!!!!

"...also on the borrower copy I only print out what the borrower actually signed...not all the other docs...this just saved me a total of 95 pages on a signing I am doing today."

A typical Countrywide package has 89-113 pages. An average figure would be about 200 pages per loan package. What's left for the borrowers when you save 95 pages? This is more worst than not giving them anything.

Search and read my posts on how you still can make great profit at the $25 (standard) print fee.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/8/08 12:07am
Msg #242610

Like the others, I think you're making a big mistake. Some of the documents, for example, are from the lender to the borrower, so they don't need to sign them. Are you saying that you wouldn't give them a copy of something specifically addressed to them, just because they aren't the ones who sign it?

I think there are much better ways to try to stay profitable. I recommend you rethink this policy. The lender has included disclosures, etc. for a purpose. If I was one of your borrowers I would be very unhappy -- and if I was the LO, I'd be furious. Also jmo.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/8/08 8:42am
Msg #242629

I agree with this advice. The decision as to what docs the borrowers get is not your decision to make. I think if word got out that you were doing this there would be a lot of ramifications. We all know it's part of the deal to print borrower's copies. I'm with you in that I don't print the 24 pages of instructions for the borrower, but otherwise everything else.
There are aspects of the business that has gotten tougher--like gas prices. It all comes down to a decision to stay in the business or get out--many have done just that.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/8/08 9:40am
Msg #242633

This is a lawsuit just looking for a place to happen ...

With all due respect, I see a couple threads down where this same poster (NotaryGirl71) is complaining about SA's who don't know what they're doing?!

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/8/08 12:29pm
Msg #242677

I print everything INCLUDING Closing Instructions

The borrowers get an **exact copy** of what they sign. There must be some reason why the TC puts the Closing Instructions in the package....I have no idea what but I include it too.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 4/8/08 1:08pm
Msg #242697

I asked the TC I do a lot of work for and was told that they

(TC) do need the 23 pages of instructions back with the pkg, but I do Not have to print it for the borrowers. I asked before I stopped printing them. I do print absolutley everything else. Borrowers deserve to have a complete pkg.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/9/08 1:40am
Msg #242763

Re: I asked the TC I do a lot of work for and was told that they

Not surprised. There is some information scattered in there that is specific to the borrower(s).

I've taken a middle of the road approach to this. I print out one set, go to the signing, then show it to the borrowers and ask them if they want a copy. [I'm abbreviating the conversation here.] Once in a while, they are the analytical, anal type who want to see everything, so I leave the one printed set with their copies, then later make another one to return with the signed package. Most of the time, they don't want the extra paper to clog up their files and are never going to look at it, so I just return the one I've already printed. [If I was going to be returning the package the same day and not have time to get back to my office, I'd just make two copies.]

I usually print them on letter size paper. For the cost of paper and toner for 23 pages, I don't want to risk losing a client.

"Borrowers deserve to have a complete pkg." Absolutely!