Posted by Vince/KS on 4/10/08 7:51pm
Msg #243125

E-sign experience

I did an e-sign today and will look forward to doing more of them. The closing required printing 38 pages for the TC and a total of 60 for the borrower (the borrower was provided hard copies of the pages needing “wet signatures (HUD, Mortgage, Riders, TC docs, 1003, appraisal and RTC - with the last two not printed for the TC). The 38 pages were to be shipped back to the TC with no faxbacks (some of the other companies require you to scan and send back or fax them back).

I logged onto the Amtrust Bank Gemstone system using the borrowers computer (my laptop was available as a backup). The process is that the borrower is typically logged, then wet signed, then e-signed (they like to do the e-signing last to impress the borrower - it was an additional 93 pages). The system is easy to understand and each borrower “clicks on various signature acceptances through the document presentation, including the important electronic signature agreement. The borrower was an attorney (and a “reader”) so the closing took longer than normal, but it took less time for me to prepare and I would say that it should cut down the time a normal closing takes with a more typical borrower.

The borrowers has had a chance to review these with his broker or LO in advance. He was impressed by the fact that the system allowed him to print, to save or to cut a disc of his documents. He chose to save them in PDF format and we made sure he had a readable saved copy before logging out. This process could be considerable slower if only a dial-up connection is available. In less populous areas, be aware that both Sprint and Verizon wireless cards respond at speeds closer to dial-up than broadband. In the urban areas, the wireless broadband service is not bad (about half the speed [2 to 4 mbps] of most home broadband systems [5 to 8 mbps]).

You care about payment? The TC simply confirmed the closing at a fee that was slightly higher than normal e-docs.

The Title company would like you to bring a laptop that you know will run the various programs and will cut a disc for the borrower if need be (or transfer files onto a memory stick). Not all borrowers computers will run the software or meet the requirements. So, they want to make sure you know in advance whether you have a laptop that has one of the following 1. a wireless card (best if you are in an area with cell coverage), 2. A wi-fi card or antenna for taping into a local network, or 3 whether you are adaptable to other systems that the borrower may be using. Most of the new laptops have wi-fi built in, but you may not have access to a local “public” network (even if you do, some security concerns are present). The digital wireless is likely the best, but does require an initial investment for the equipment. As others have said, these should probably be priced above the e-docs price until frequency can justify the expenditures needed to do them.

The TC said that many have had a problem with the system and it is not bug free. It helps to be “fearless” (or at least computer literate) when it comes to computers to do these as more can go wrong than normal (like entering the wrong program area and potentially re-drafting the docs).

Hope this helps someone.

Reply by Doris_CO on 4/10/08 8:38pm
Msg #243136

Vince, Did you do your training through the XYZ organization and is that how you were contacted for this closing? Just wondering if, in order to receive this type of closing, one would have to belong to and receive the training from that other organization?

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/10/08 10:04pm
Msg #243151

No, one of the title companies that I routinely work for just started doing these about a month ago for Amtrust. Before that, any of these loans were fairly standard - they asked me then whether I was interested in trying this new method (computers are a hobby of mine).

Any training with the method - simply looking at the on line presentation (pretty much from a borrowers perspective) then a quick five minute call from the TC concerning use of the menus, login and password. From there it was "sink or swim." Only the electronic agreement is new - remainder of docs are standard and what you are likely used to seeing.

Reply by GF_CA on 4/10/08 8:49pm
Msg #243138

I did my first yesterday but, I couldn't finish because we used borrower's computer and he had windows vista and the programm didn't work with it.

Reply by Mike/AZ on 4/10/08 9:35pm
Msg #243145

How much did this job pay, if you don't mind me asking?

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/10/08 10:08pm
Msg #243152

sent you a PM

Reply by Lora/FL on 4/10/08 10:12pm
Msg #243153

Vince-sent you a pm too!

Reply by Kathy/ID on 4/11/08 10:04am
Msg #243202

I would be interested in knowing what these are paying as well. Will you please advise? PM would be fine.

Reply by sue_pa on 4/11/08 10:08am
Msg #243203

I'm asking you Vince

to tell us what a "fee slightly higher" is. I never understand why people won't say. I know who this vendor management company is and I know their fees. If you are already doing these you are on the ground floor of setting the standard.

In the situation you cite, you've got a saavy borrower. You tell us you are computer saavy. You say you are to bring your laptop as a backup. If a backup is needed, how much time is going to be added to the appointment - rhetorical question because the answer is CONSIDERABLE.

So, I'm asking - if for some reason you don't want to be specific give us general - more than the $200 MINIMUM this should be? I do know the answer is no but where are YOU setting the bar for the newest phase of our business? There are few out there with the equipment and the capability (meaning computer saaviness) that are able to complete this at this time. I'm asking because when we went to e-docs, the bar was set at $50. We see the daily complaints of people being asked to accept $15 and I see the majority of people seeming to think $25 is acceptable. If you start out low (like that sad lady in AZ on another board that thought $85 for all this was acceptable) where do you think this will lead? Down the road if the glitches are all worked out and a lower fee makes sense, so be it but right now, a lower fee just baffles me. So, one more time, will you tell us the fee you are getting for these?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 4/11/08 10:20am
Msg #243206

$200 MINIMUM

I absolutely agree with you, Sue about this being the minimum, wiith all the required hardware and additional broadband service this is going to require.
(Especially when you read posts outlining the financial reasons why brokers are requesting this service.)

Reply by Cari on 4/11/08 1:07pm
Msg #243222

can you share the fee? n/m

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/11/08 2:53pm
Msg #243230

Several persons (six) sent me pm asking for information that I’ve responded to. Generally, everyone wanted to know what the TC paid. In reading this and other forums regarding fees, it is not a good idea to place the exact fee out there (even if I did for those that asked). Kansas City is a reasonably competitive town. A number of persons have a listing of the fees they charge on their websites and the range is huge. A few persons working as schedulers have shared the typical fees that are charged here and elsewhere and the range is even larger. Sometimes a higher fee means they are buying a knowledgeable, experienced person and sometimes it does not. If you research your area, and it is as competitive, you may find persons willing to do overnight docs in the $45 to $125 range. The e-docs may or may not be done for $20 to $50 more. Some charge various mileage rates from $.25 to $2.00 per mile over a set, but variable number of miles of 15, 20, 25, 30 or 50. Many of the larger companies keep numbers on what is typical in various areas. Others simply try to do closings within a certain number of miles of the area they are located in and only venture out of it when pleaded upon. Each person needs to develop a business plan that works for them in the current market and perhaps dependent upon whether it is eom, mid-month or when things are hectic or slow.

It is my opinion that these e-signings may be better than your typical close once the bugs are worked out of the system and if you are doing them in an urban area - or a home that is in an area well served by either the homeowners or your wireless broadband or wi-fi connection (you may also have to use a lan cable to get into the borrowers’ network). They take less time to prepare for than e-docs, should take less time at the table (certainly take the writers cramp away from the borrower) use less of your paper but do require some patience of the borrower and the system that you are logged into. If you doing one on a dial-up basis or a wireless card in a fringe area (both Verizon and Sprint advised me that the connection is closer to dial up in fringe areas) you and everyone else may have been better off to simply print the docs before going because the files accessed are huge and require frequent interaction between you and the system which may create huge frustrations waiting for the download.

It is also my opinion that the eventual charge on these should be about 10% higher than e-docs due to the amortization of additional equipment cost and the additional skills needed. During the introductory phase of these, many things can apparently go wrong. For instance, the log-in name and password needed changed before my first closing (I had one set of these during “practice” and tried to log-on the morning of the closing to make sure it still worked, but had to be provided a new set). The computer you are using may have security settings that require changing to interact with the program, the borrowers system does not have Adobe, the borrowers system does not meet minimum requirements, the network went down, the signal that is ordinarily strong in the area is currently weak and you can’t even connect and so on. Verizon tells me they use the same coverage map on the data network as the voice, but Sprint says the data network is on a different frequency and the coverage is entirely different. Neither has “good” coverage in all of the areas that I typically serve. Both Verizon and Sprint mention a multitude of connection speeds depending upon may things go to your cell providers’ website and check the speed of the various equipment in areas that you will likely serve. In some cases, connecting through your cell, or various wireless cards may make a difference in how well and how fast the connection made will be. I can see tremendous frustration from all if you were near finishing and the connection is broken one or more times. Good luck with your research!

Reply by dickb/wi on 4/11/08 8:29pm
Msg #243252

vince..were you using xp or vista...... n/m

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/11/08 9:03pm
Msg #243253

Re: vince..were you using xp or vista......

The borrower's computer was a "medium grade" notebook with Vista Home. I used XP Pro on both my Notebook and Desktop.