Posted by Linda Spanski on 4/9/08 2:20pm
Msg #242890

Fired for doing a good job

Printed edocs and drove 20 miles to a borrower whose name on docs included a middle initial that was not on her ID. Bwr says she has no MI. I explain the problem to the SS and am told they'll have to find another notary who'll overlook this. But I was promised a $25 trip fee!

I would gladly share the info about this company but could not find them in Signing Central. When I tried to add them I got an error message saying they are already listed. I wish this site were more user-friendly.

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 4/9/08 2:28pm
Msg #242896

PLEASE PLEASE post who this company was!!!
I will pay ya the $25 LOL !!! j/k

Reply by Kathy/ID on 4/9/08 3:01pm
Msg #242902

you need to us the contact us to Notify Harry about the company that says already exists. Then you also need to post the company name here so that when others do a search they can find this company and have your comments.

Reply by GA/Atty on 4/9/08 3:03pm
Msg #242903

What if she had had a middle name on her ID? Not just an initial, but an entire name?

Assuming the initial on the docs was the same as the first letter of the name on the ID, would you have notarized her signatures with just the middle initial?

Or what if the docs had no middle initial but her ID did?

Reply by Linda Spanski on 4/9/08 3:18pm
Msg #242908

Basic stuff, GA/Atty

I can accept more but not less. If it's not on the ID I cannot notarize that signed name. ID with John Joe Jones can sign John J or J Joe or John Jones; ID with John Jones cannot sign anything except what's on the ID. Bwr told me she has no middle name.

To follow up, NotRot immediately replied to my query and are looking into it. Also, the SS called back and asked me to go back with a grant deed with AKA wording that solves the issue. I will post the outcome in signing central once the SS name appears there.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 4/9/08 3:47pm
Msg #242919

Re: Basic stuff, GA/Atty

Could you used credible witnesses for this?
although she would of had to lined out the middle initial on all docs, and for that I suppose you would need a verbal ok to do that.
Just a thought, that the i.d. is good, but credible witness is also an option for these type of issues right?
am I wrong?
Lisa

Reply by Teresa/FL on 4/9/08 4:05pm
Msg #242924

IMO, the issue is how her name currently appears on title

If the documents were generated based on the preliminary title report that shows the property is held as Mary L. Smith, but her name is actually Mary Smith (she has no middle name or initial), it would probably be a good idea to correct her name on title so the county property records will be right and will match the loan documents (as corrected).

It is up to the lender to either accept corrections to the loan documents (lining through and ititialing the change) or to generate a new package showing her name as Mary Smith, which is the way her name shows on her ID. By generating a corrective deed to be recorded showing her name as "Mary Smith AKA Mary L. Smith" or Mary Smith who took title as Mary L. Smith" this should take care of the issue.

I had a similar situation come up last week. At the time of the property purchase, the buyer's first name was misspelled. It was noticed at the closing, but they signed anyway without correcting it. Many times just the Warranty Deed contains the error and it gets recorded that way because the buyer doesn't always see this document as it is signed by the seller only.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 4/9/08 4:11pm
Msg #242927

Hit enter too soon....

I meant to add, when I encounter name issues I contact the TC and discuss the ID/name discrepancy and how they want to resolve it. Most TCs will generate a QCD to correct as it is a title issue.

Whatever the outcome, I can only notarize a signature when supported by proper ID.

Reply by Linda Spanski on 4/9/08 4:10pm
Msg #242926

Use of credible witnesses

It's my policy to use credible witnesses only with lender approval. Since most of the docs I see now include a page (or 2 or 3!) for me to fill out with bwr's ID info, and many require a copy of the bwr's ID as well, this issue goes beyond a judgment call on my part. Lenders want proof that I've done my job correctly.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 4/9/08 4:37pm
Msg #242935

Re: Use of credible witnesses

I do understand, but the use of credible witness is a notary issue not a lender issue.
It’s to satisfy your journal.

As there was an accessible borrower i.d. to satisfy the lender need.
You could have done this. Just an idea is all.

I am not saying you handled it wrong, but would hate for you to lose any work if you’re not thinking outside the box.

Reply by Terri_CA on 4/9/08 4:34pm
Msg #242932

Re: Basic stuff, GA/Atty

No, at this point one should NOT use Credible Witnesses, as the signer has already stated that they have no middle name and the name on the docs is not theirs. So the CW's would be asked to swear an oath or affirmation that the name on the docs is correct. That would be an illegal identification and notarization.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 4/9/08 4:42pm
Msg #242938

Re: Basic stuff, GA/Atty

my thoughts was that the name would have to be changed and initialed
not that they would sign with the initial and use credible witness.

but if I was the signing company, I would of given permission to make this change through out the docs, instead of hoping to find a signing agent who would of "overlooked" the issue.

And I guess, if the change was made the credible witnesses would not of been needed.
ha ha

Reply by GA/Atty on 4/9/08 5:05pm
Msg #242943

Re: Basic stuff, GA/Atty

That's pretty rough. If I were an attorney or a real estate agent in your state, I would make it known to purchasers at the closing table to take title in the names exactly as shown on their IDs to avoid these situations. Would save a lot of unnecessary corrections.

Reply by Merry_CA on 4/9/08 5:51pm
Msg #242949

Re: Basic stuff, GA/Atty

Oh, GA/Atty, you are so correct. RE agents, LO's etc. could simply check the borrower's ID and make sure that docs are drawn so the two will match.... duh! Heck, they could even alert the borrowers that they will need to present their ID (+1 addn'l. ID in CA) at signing and save everyone a lot of grief. Name discripencies (marriages, etc.) would also be headed off at the pass.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/9/08 7:13pm
Msg #242961

It's not that easy, Merry.

**and make sure that docs are drawn so the two will match.... duh!**

Merry, docs are drawn to suit the title insurance and lender requirements, which is the way the person took title to the property.

Let's say in 1985 Johnny Walker purchased the property. The deed's grantee was then "Johnny Walker". Who owns the property? Johnny Walker.

It's 2008 and Johnny now goes by John Walker. Same guy. It's on his driver's license and so forth. Now he wants a loan. The only person who can get a loan on that property is the same guy who purchased it. His name is Johnny Walker...but his driver's license only has John Walker on it.

Should John Walker be denied a loan because his name has been shortened to John on his driver's license? John Walker cannot sign off just to match an ID. The ownership and proper conveyance or granting of the deed of trust or mortgage interest is what is important.

What I have offered doesn't resolve the problem but hopefully my explanation makes sense. (I am taking Nyquil shooters this week.)

Reply by Pat/IL on 4/9/08 10:10pm
Msg #242972

Re: I dunno, Brenda.

Maybe they pay more attention to this stuff where you are. But, having purchased two homes in Illinois, all I can tell you is that the lawyers blew the vesting both times and we had to write in the correct name spellings and tenancy. It would not have been all that difficult to ask us a simple question, such as "what does your drivers license say on it?". Actually, I am pretty sure that they just used whatever the real estate agent wrote down on the sales contract.

Hope your cold makes a quick exit!

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/10/08 6:36am
Msg #242981

Re: I dunno, Brenda.

**Actually, I am pretty sure that they just used whatever the real estate agent wrote down on the sales contract.**

During a straight purchase, that's correct. Buyers sign off on the contract though, right? If there's no loan involved, whatever is on the contract would not be questioned because buyers have signed and agreed with the name/vesting. The RE agent probably won't be concerned. If there is a lender involved, the lender has a say. What those preferences are I couldn't tell you right at this minute.

Getting vesting and ID to match isn't as easy as putting the "right" name on the documents for a loan that comes down the pike after the property has already got an owner's name on it...an owner who wants to borrower money on the property.

Again, not offering any solutions, just explaining the problem is not that easy to solve to make the notary's ID situation seamless.

What about the woman who marries and then her name is different ten years later when she wants to get a loan? Like Janet said, it would make it easier if the situation would be handled before it gets to signing up the documents. The lender has seen a copy of the DL prior to the point of signing. Title is insuring the title. It's a problem to them as much as anyone.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/10/08 1:45am
Msg #242977

If only.....

The issue then becomes how does the notary know for certain that the John Walker of 2008 is the same person as the Johnny Walker of 1985? Maybe Johnny Walker is his father who is the real owner of the property.

This is a pipe dream, probably, but if the person who did the 1003 checked the IDs early in the process, they might be able to work out a solution before docs, borrower and notary are all at the signing table. As you know, there are a variety of ways to fix these things, depending on the situation, but I have to believe that they would all be easier if not left to the last minute.

Ahhh, if only....

Reply by Shelly_FL on 4/10/08 10:07am
Msg #242991

<<I explain the problem to the SS and am told they'll have to find another notary who'll overlook this. But I was promised a $25 trip fee!>>

Correcting the middle initial or not, credible witnesses or no credible witnesses, lets go beyond the obvious and address the responsibility of the notary in regards to the SS's tactics.

Posting the name here is a start, but what then? Do you report this activity to a governmental agency or professional association? And who or what would they be?

I'd bet money that the SS would ask her to return or pay the full fee if they were held accountable for their questionable practices.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 4/10/08 12:00pm
Msg #243023

I would not report someone to a government agency because I declined a notarization because I made a reasonable judgement that the ID was insuffcient, and the person or organization went looking for a notary who might come to a different judgement. There are pleanty of legal cases that say Jonny and John are interchangeable, and that middle names are seldom important. If some other notary figures that since some states refuse to put middle names on licenses, that constitutes a finding by the state that the full middle name is unimportant and matching the initial is good enough, that is a reasonable conclusion and I don't think it is sufficient reason to report the matter to the government.

Reply by LynnNC on 4/10/08 1:39pm
Msg #243062

Why didn't you have her drawn one line through her middle initial on all documents and have her initial the change, and send a copy of her ID? You could have had her make the same change on the sig/name affidavit.