Posted by Nomad/OR on 4/25/08 10:09am
Msg #244992
How can anybody break even with this?
If I was retired and bored and could work for free, I might.
As rural as I am, my biggest cost is gas.
I don't think I'm being greedy with the fees I ask, but I have to wonder how do people make money with these rates?
I applied to an outfit using their setup package and changed the rates they offered me to a minimum of $75, and some of you out there would argue that even THAT is too low. I'm not looking to loot and pillage anybody, but I would like to make more than $20 profit on a run after spending time printing, sorting, driving, notarizing, fed-ex dropping and faxing... Am I asking too much??
This is the reply I got...
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I have received your setup pkg and going through it all is fine but the fees. You will never get any called at that rate. The letter I sent you says $65/$20. And actually we have lowered the fees even lower. Down to $45/$20 gives you first call on orders in your primary county, $50/$20 gives you 2nd choice to be called, and $60/$20 gives you 3rd choice to be called. I know that you think that it is very low but there are alot of agents that have lowered to get the calls. Anything higher than those fees will probably not get to many calls at all. It's your choice
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I guess I won't be getting called by that outfit as those rates would have me break even or go into the red.
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Reply by Yoli/CA on 4/25/08 10:30am
Msg #244994
I didn't think even the newbies worked that cheap!!! n/m
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Reply by DogmongerCA on 4/25/08 10:35am
Msg #244995
My response would be
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I have received your setup pkg and going through it all is fine but the fees. You will never get any called at that rate. The letter I sent you says $65/$20. And actually we have lowered the fees even lower. Down to $45/$20 gives you first call on orders in your primary county, $50/$20 gives you 2nd choice to be called, and $60/$20 gives you 3rd choice to be called. I know that you think that it is very low but there are alot of agents that have lowered to get the calls. Anything higher than those fees will probably not get to many calls at all. It's your choice
Thanks so much for responding. Actually my costs have been spiraling up, but as a act of good faith I kept my old pricing to try and accomdate you. The submission I originally send stands, as these are my fees for my business. If I do not get may calls, your company will not benefit form my excellent customer service and many years of experience. It's your choice:-)
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Reply by ME/NJ on 4/25/08 10:38am
Msg #244996
Looks like Service Link letter
When gas hits $4-5/gallon even the notaries that take the lowball prices will start to think about taking work for 45-60 dollars. Only problem for them now is they locked themself into the low rate and may never get a bump up again.
$45 dollar closing (if I were to do it this what my cost would be)
$10 for gas - I drive an SUV gets 17-20mpg
$20 -Baby sitter fee $10.00/hour 2hours min
$5-10 print cost - toner and paper
$5-10 cost of business (bills, ins, phone, internet, so on) this figure drops as volume increases
$50 - 2-3 hours of my time (this includes printing, calls, signing and drive to UPS or Fed Ex)
15% for taxes
Bottom line is @ $100 per closing I am breaking even if that. If I were to do a $45 closing I am giving them $50 of my time and cost for free.
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Reply by Gary_CA on 4/25/08 10:51am
Msg #244998
a quibble
"15% for taxes"
Not if you accept $40 signings... you wouldn't be paying much in taxes.
I'd respond to this and tell them to take me off their list. When they were $65 and I insisted on $75 I stayed on and sometimes got the second call... but at $40 it's not just bad business, it's an insult that should be responded to.
"Thanks for your response, I don't work for free, take me off your list."
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Reply by TRG_wy on 4/25/08 11:05am
Msg #245000
Re: a quibble
All told you probably end up in the 15% tax bracket, I believe that was the reasoning.
Thses fees are not working for FREE, they are working at a LOSS and are costing the notary money.
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Reply by JohnnyB on 4/25/08 1:08pm
Msg #245017
Re: Looks like Service Link letter
yes, it has to be Service Link. I said no to them a long time ago. Closings that take a lot of time, fax backs, fill out their bill, and lousy people to deal with.
This notary biz does not attract the savy business person for the most part and cannot figure out the numbers
I have never seen anyone in my state of Rhode Island complain about low fees on this board. They just accept their mediocrity.
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Reply by TRG_wy on 4/25/08 10:50am
Msg #244997
This offer belongs in the comic section of the newspaper! n/m
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Reply by docs1954CA on 4/25/08 11:07am
Msg #245001
Here's an offer I got, should make the top 10 lowball list
A closing request e-mail was sent to me yesterday.It was also sent to other vendors in my area to fight over. With what was required, I can see why they didn't call. I don't think I could have restrained myself.
This was a 3 part signing. You had to take all 3. All had to be done today. Times were firm.E-docs, gee only 20 pages.....
First location approx 30 miles south, 1 borrower.
Second location approx. 66 miles north, 1 borrower.
Third location approx 28 miles, 1 borrower.
The fee---$50.00, I kid you not!!
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Reply by SheilaSJCA on 4/25/08 12:28pm
Msg #245012
Re: Here's an offer I got, should make the top 10 lowball list
sounds sorta like the one I got from a title company that normally pays well, but I didn't even ask the fee, because I was not interested in traveling to a signer here in San Jose, then to San Francisco, and on also to Walnut Creek. I do not cover all that area, so I couldnt even imagine what to bid on that one, they were trying to keep costs down by hiring someone williing to go all over tarnation for one fee, instead of hiring 3 notaries...I hope this was not the company who called you (it was only the DOT, TIL,and NORTC)
This has been happening more and more, companies lowering their fees, and expecting us take it, even though costs are up! We need to stand firm, why give them more ground, we will be priced out of business if this keeps up!
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Reply by Nomad/OR on 4/25/08 12:38pm
Msg #245013
Re: Here's an offer I got, should make the top 10 lowball li
Having lived in your area, I would need $250 for that run, minimum. Cost of living there is so high, not to mention the joy of sitting in traffic on hwy 85 for three hours just to go four miles. You would have hit rush hour somewhere with that run as well as use the whole day to do it.
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Reply by SheilaSJCA on 4/25/08 1:19pm
Msg #245020
You said it...exactly my thoughts! n/m
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Reply by JohnnyB on 4/25/08 1:01pm
Msg #245016
We are already priced out of the business!!! They have won. n/m
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Reply by Susan/CA on 4/25/08 11:03am
Msg #244999
This is an insult .. can you name the company? Although I am getting these types of lowball request from many companies!!! Absolutely NO WAY!!! I too cannot believe anyone takes these fees. They are sc***ing all of us!!!!
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Reply by DD/OR on 4/25/08 9:56pm
Msg #245100
I'd say OK, if you pay me up front.
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Reply by Pat/CA on 4/25/08 10:09pm
Msg #245101
Did you calculate just the mileage on this? Don't think it..
would even cover the gas. At times, I'm willing to negotiate my fee depending on a lot of circumstances for that particular day, signing etc. However, (IMHO) if we, as professionals, begin accepting $50.00 signings, we are placing our business into the graveyard with the possibility of never recovering from the loss!
If I ever get so desperate for $50 loss, I'll go to the casino 8 miles away and throw it in the garbage!
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Reply by sue_pa on 4/25/08 11:17pm
Msg #245111
Re: Did you calculate just the mileage on this? Don't think it..
...if we, as professionals, begin accepting $50.00 signings, we are placing our business into the graveyard with the possibility of never recovering from the loss!...
How can you make blanket statements like that? I seldom take $50 orders but if the $$$ makes sense, why not? In the recent past I accepted a $50 order. Door to door I was home and back in (not positive any more) about 40 minutes or so. I made more 'per hour' on that deal that I make on a $175 order where I print 300 pages of docs, drive 45 minutes each way and spend 45 minutes to an hour with the borrower.
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Reply by Pat/CA on 4/26/08 12:02am
Msg #245118
Boy am I messing up on these threads...my eyes must be going
You're correct, it was a blanket statement. I was however, referencing docs1954CA post above that which I erroneously thought (s)he was referring to.
In addition, I meant the $50.00 signings that people are accepting with e-doc large packages with commutes involved.
Most of us have had to come to the conclusion of either reducing our fees to keep up with the horrific economy or get out of the business. It's affecting all aspects of this business unfortunately, but it is a fact that one needs to consider if we want to hang-on during these tough times.
I also have taken $50.00 orders with similiar scenarios that you mention... and it is profitable as you state.
Hope I've clarified myself here. I received 1 call for a 9 p.m. signing that is 1 1/2 hours away... 3 hours just in travel, in a remote mountain area, and they wanted to pay $125.00 for e-docs. THAT would have cost me money and they didn't want to meet my fee. Not too sure who they found because I can't find a notary anywhere near that area in seaching and of course, they only had a few hours to find someone.
Crazy business!
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Reply by sue_pa on 4/26/08 7:25am
Msg #245152
Re: Boy am I messing up on these threads...my eyes must be going
well I certainly agree there - if someone is taking e-docs and/or commutes for $50 they are IDIOTS. On VERY rare occasions I'll take an e-doc for $100 and I am furious each and every time. Even at $100 I can't see more than barely breaking even and I thank my numerous clients that are willing to pay the $150+ that should be paid out on these orders. As for the 'profitable' $50 orders, those requests are few and far between but they do exist.
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Reply by Pat/CA on 4/25/08 11:51pm
Msg #245116
Whoops! Thought your response was to docs1954CA post above n/m
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Reply by jba/fl on 4/26/08 12:46am
Msg #245123
Re: Did you calculate just the mileage on this? Don't think it..
"If I ever get so desperate for $50 loss, I'll go to the casino 8 miles away and throw it in the garbage!"
Oh, Pat, click on my name, fine an envelope and affix $.41 stamp and mail to address listed. Cheaper than driving to casino!
I am amazed at this thread...
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Reply by CaliNotary on 4/26/08 2:27am
Msg #245140
"I'd say OK, if you pay me up front."
Of course you would since your policy of getting paid up front has decimated your business down to nothing. You really don't think we believe that you have several companies that have agreed to do this for you, do you? If I had repeatedly shot myself in the foot the way you have, I might be desperate enough to start considering $45 signings too. Because obviously getting two $20 bills AND a $5 at the signing is much more lucrative than getting checks for hundreds of dollars a few weeks down the road.
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