Posted by NotaryGirl71 on 4/7/08 4:05pm
Msg #242532

I Get So Annoyed...

when people think all that is needed to do loan signings is to become a notary. We do so much more than just notarize documents!!! Most of us have either taken special classes or been in the mortgage industry for years or BOTH to do what we do.

I can’t tell you how many signings I have been to when the borrower says, “I’m a notary…or I use to be a notary”. I then ask them if they are or were a notary signing agent. Being a notary and being a notary signing agent are two different things….it drives me crazy!!!

Just because a person is a notary does not mean they have ANY IDEA how to do loan signings!

The previous post from Nomad/OR said the borrower took his loan docs to a “general notary” to get signed…how much do you want to bet that the “general notary” does not know how to do loan signings and then Nomad/OR will have to go back out and correct the numerous errors in the documents.

Sorry folks…just venting!

Have a wonderful and lucrative day!

Reply by Cari on 4/7/08 5:38pm
Msg #242547

YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NOSE....BULLSEYE!

Absolutely correct! I have been a notary since '91, but worked as a real estate paralegal, and when I came into the notary signing world, yeah, totally different. I was lucky in that I already knew the lending biz (20 years) but still, had lots more to learn. And still learning more and more each day...

I'm with you sister.

Reply by RickG/CA on 4/7/08 6:08pm
Msg #242558

Just wanted to throw in my $1.95 for a cup of coffee. (Sorry, only for those is Sacramento)
Really, about the borrower who takes a stack of stuff to a "general notary"...what exactly is your gripe here?!?! Regardless of whether or not the G/N knows how to conduct a loan signing, if he/she/they know the state laws this shouldn't be a problem.

My first set of loan documents was this situation. The conversation was like this (from what I remember)

BO: Hello I need to have some documents notarized, can you do that?
ME: Sort of, I can notarize your signature on those documents.
BO: How much does this cost?
ME: That depends on how many signatures I notarize.
BO: There are lots signature in this stack of papers.
ME: I'm guessing not all the signatures will need to be notarized.

ME: What kind of notarizations will you be needing?
BO: What's the difference?
ME: An acknowledgement is... A jurat is...
BO: My loan officer, didn't tell me anything about that.
ME: I'm sorry to hear that, would you like to contact that person.
BO: No, but could you explain again what the difference was
ME: Certainly

BO: Do you know what this document is for?
ME: Sorry, I can not comment on the content of your documents.

ME: Are you sure you wouldn't like to contact your loan person.
BO: No, I can figure this stuff out.
ME: Ok, sign here, I need a right thumbprint, etc, etc.

I understand your vent, however there's not sense in throwing a rock at the notary or the borrower for that matter.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/7/08 6:51pm
Msg #242567

Lately I have had several borrowers come to me with their loan docs. They are coming to me for notary services. Some lenders/title companies do send the docs to the borrower and tell them to take them to a notary. Wells Fargo has been doing this for years with some of their loans.
Before there were "signing agents" notaries were doing loan signings. When I started as a "signing agent" there were no classes to take. Notaries did not get into the minutiae of the loan documents. Didn't take a rocket science to identify the docs to the borrower, make sure the borrower signed their names as printed, and notarize the necessary signatures.

We cannot explain the docs to the borrower, only identify them, and any questions as to the terms that are not clearly spelled out to the borrowers satisfaction they have to call their loan officer.
Only since the NNA got into the signing agent business do we see "signing agents" with so many questions on the documents.

We take the docs to the borrower (OK nowadays we usually have to print out the docs first)
We verify the identity of the signers
We identify the docs to the borrowers and make sure they sign as indicated.
We notarize the signatures on the relevant documents.
We ship the documents back to the company.

A notary with the right equipment for printing the docs, and a modicum of intelligence can do loan signgings.

Reply by Cari on 4/7/08 10:12pm
Msg #242602

IL has no required testing or training so with this

disadvantage, newly appointed notaries, especially those not at all familiar with loan docs or the mortgage industry for that matter, WILL have a hard time at their first signing - it's not as cut and dry as you have nicely and conveniently outlined above.

There are major diffs between a general notary and a nsa.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/7/08 10:21pm
Msg #242604

Re: IL has no required testing or training so with this

Cari
I was a "general" notary until I started doing loan signings. I was not familiar with the mortgage industry and the only loan docs I had seen were the ones my husband and I signed, first when we bought the house and then when we refinanced in the early 1990's. (and when we refinanced it was a notary who brought the loan docs to us)

But I did not have a hard time with my first signing (other than the fact my father passed away that morning). Identifying docs was not difficult. The "title" of the docs is at the top of the page, so it is obvious what the doc relates to. And I knew my state's notary laws thoroughly so the notarizations were no problem.
I did tell the company that I had not notarized any loan documents before and they assured me I wouldn't have a problem with them. After I did that first one for them I was doing several a week for them.

But, I agree that "newly appointed notaries" will have a difficult time.

When I hire a signing agent, I check on how long they have been a notary.

Reply by LynnNC on 4/8/08 12:39pm
Msg #242685

When the borrowers came to you as a Notary, I assume that you charged only the going rate to notarize each signature, rather what you can charge as a Signing Agent, which can be significantly more in many cases. IMO, Signing Agents perform more of a service, as a Notary shouldn't be expected to identify documents, but, to only properly notarize documents. I learned a great deal from signing agent courses that I wouldn't have known had I began to close loans with only my notary training.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/08 12:53pm
Msg #242692

Yes, when they come to me they have the option of using me as a signing agent, in which case I will go over the docs with them and I will charge them accordingly, or they can use me as a notary in which case I charge the $10 per notarization allowed by Florida.
Often they only want my services as a notary, and at $10 per notarization it sometimes works out better for me, and I didn't have to travel. Plus they call and come to me when it is convenient for me.
And I do have a couple of lenders that will call me to ask if they can send a borrower over to me, and in that case the lender pays me the regular signing fee they charge the borrowers.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/8/08 4:34am
Msg #242617

"ME: What kind of notarizations will you be needing?
BO: What's the difference?
ME: An acknowledgement is... A jurat is...
BO: My loan officer, didn't tell me anything about that.
ME: I'm sorry to hear that, would you like to contact that person.
BO: No, but could you explain again what the difference was
ME: Certainly"

This part doesn't make any sense. With very few exceptions, loan docs have preprinted notary wording on them, there is no reason to ask what kind of notarizations they need.

Reply by Nick/MD on 4/8/08 6:11am
Msg #242620

HERE HERE... TRY LIVING IN MD. AND THE STATE REQUIRES YOU TO HAVE A TITLE PRODUCER'S LICENSE WHICH INVOLVES CARRYING A SURETY BOND... VERY EXPENSIVE... PLUS 16 HOURS OF CONTINUED ED. EVERY 2 YEARS TO RENEW, YET ANOTHER EXPENSE, AND THEN THE BEST IS WHEN A SIGNING COMPANY CALLS YOU THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR FOR A LONG TIME AND SAYS, "WE ARE CALLING ALL THE NOTARIES IN THE COUNTRY IN HOPES THEY WILL LOWER THEIR FEES"... THEY HAVE TO BE KIDDING. MAYBE, IF WE WERE JUST A NOTARY STATE HERE, BUT WE ARE NOT.

Reply by RickG/CA on 4/8/08 10:24am
Msg #242638

Re: I Get So Annoyed...my point is a G/N is just that

Cali,

I had not gone thru the stack, nor was it my intention to do so. To me, the scope of work was to notarize the signatures the BO asked.

Point being, if someone (BO) were to go to a general notary, there should be no problem if the g/n has a firm understanding of the laws regarding notarial acts. The g/n has no business flipping the pages nor saying anything other than "Hello", "Do you affirm...", "Thank You", etc. The g/n need not have to worry if all the docs are signed, if the correct pages are initialed, if the correct number of copies were received and faxbacks (Do-Overs for that matter).

Before I get lamb basted, I also take issue with a g/n accepting assignments and representing themself as an NSA without having experience/background/education/a clue. There so much more to being an NSA than a G/N, that I dare not say any G/N can do it.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/9/08 3:21am
Msg #242764

Re: I Get So Annoyed...my point is a G/N is just that

I think Cali has a point, though. Even with general notary work, when it comes to deciding what kind of notarization to do, the first thing I would do is look at the notary language on the document (or direct the signer to do it). From that I should be able to make the determination. If there isn't any notary verbiage, then (in CA) I have to ask them what kind of notarization they want (and usually explain the difference). Otherwise, I'm the one who should know that, not the person signing the docs. They usually have no clue.

I agree, that if we have on our general notary hat, we only need to look at the docs we are actually notarizing. I usually give the person a choice.

Reply by Yowheelz on 4/8/08 12:15pm
Msg #242671

I have an entire song and dance for anyone who wants my job. You must be a commissioned notary, a licensed title producer, bonded, background investigation, have a super computer and big printer, not mind working mostly evenings, driving all over 4 counties at night and the clincher is: you have to not mind going into strangers homes at night and all homes are not as clean as yours. That usually discourages them but if it doesn't work I let them know that it has taken me 16 years to build up a business. and no I don't know who is currently offering classes. Let them do their own research, I did mine.