Posted by Joy_NYC on 4/16/08 9:24pm
Msg #243754

Notary incomplete assignment and unable to reach by phone

My service hired a Notary to do pre-signing work. She was to retrieve paperwork from a borrower in order to clear the file to close. The notary retrieved the orginal paperwork but never forwarded it and cannot be reached by phone, email, text etc.. I have consulted an attorney that has done work for me in the past however, I'd like to get your input. What could be going on with this notary and have you ever had this happen to you. Or as a notary have you ever been this unprofessional with good excuse?

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/16/08 10:02pm
Msg #243762

Questions, Joy...

1) When was the appointment? How long has this been going on?

2) What documents were retrieved? Can't they be resigned or replaced?

3) Is there any reason you can't just strike that notary off the list, not pay them, send another person and move on down the road?

An attorney is going to charge you $150-$250 an hour. Why can't just you close the file on a notary who is undoubtedly costing you less than an attorney and move on?

Maybe we need more details to give you answers.

Until then, my current "input" is that I wouldn't waste another minute (or dollar) dwelling on something you have no control over.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/16/08 10:08pm
Msg #243763

Re: Questions, Joy...Dang you're quick Brenda, this looks

to me like a lead into a notary bashing session by someone with a very specific axe to grind. I am sure that Joy already knows the answers and is just looking for ratification. I wouldn't waste another minute on it either: no one here has what Joy is actually looking for and this would just turn into a Chinese fire-drill!

For Starters Joy, lets get the name of the service out in the open and as Brenda said some additional information about the assignment.

Reply by Cari on 4/16/08 10:19pm
Msg #243765

why even bother, this forum is NOT for signing services??

she needs to go to a different forum....IMHO

Reply by Cari on 4/17/08 9:18am
Msg #243809

Re: why even bother, this forum is NOT for signing services??

It's my understanding that this forum was created for notaries to network?

And I stand by my earlier post in that if a signing company is going to come into this forum, and start posting negative comments about a notary they hired, then I don't want to read about, at least NOT on this forum. That's all I'm saying.

And I too agree that this forum serves both us and our CLIENTS (SS) in that cross communication is sometimes good. But then again, should it be allowed also to serve as a bashing ground for SS who has a grudge or whatever against a fellow notary?

I mean, I agree with you SoCal in that perhaps the SS shouldn't jump to conclusions and assume that this particular notary is 'unprofessional' - no one knows what the notary's current situation is, they could be hospitilized, undergoing family problems, etc.

If SS are allowed to start bashing fellow notaries, then we all better watch what we post, because any comments, whether positive or negative, might (or will) be held against us by those signing services who may hire us for work in our area.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/17/08 12:33pm
Msg #243828

Cari there are a number of SS on this forum....

Sylvia and Sherri come to mind immediately. I think it leads to a better understanding of both sides of the business through an open discussion of the issues and I think it shoujld should continue to be so.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:11am
Msg #243785

Re: Questions, Joy...Dang you're quick Brenda, this looks

Charles, don't be so quick to judge. I am not even giving the Notaries name in the hopes that he/she has had some kind of emergency that is keeping /him/her from responding. There is no axe to grind, I am just trying to keep this client and keep the work coming for my notaries.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/17/08 12:31pm
Msg #243826

I think that you misunderstood my post Joy...

I'm not judging, I am just reacting as I would if it was my deal that was muffed. I wouldn't waste my time with an attorney or tring to get the notary I'd have cut ther SS and had the loan signed by someone else and moved on. Of course, I don't use SS because of inconsistent quality of notaries that they provide and also because there is no recourse against an SS for blowing a signing like there is against a TC. The most improtant thing is to accommodate the client and anything other than gettng the loan signed in a timely fashion does nothing for the borrower.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:09am
Msg #243784

Re: Questions, Joy...

They were "Living Trust" documents that the lender needed to clear the loan (Reverse Mortgage) for closing. The documents he had were originals. I can't send another Notary out to complete the assignment because, there are no other documents. This is as of 04/09 and it's a week as of today. The first excuse was that, the notary had faxed me but, didn't know why I didn't get the fax. The notary would try again- that was April 10th. Finally on April 11th, I told the notary to overnight the docs because obvioulsy there was a problem with the notaries fax. They were to arrive Saturday and nothing came. I called the notary Saturday/Sunday/Monday/Tuesday etc.. Saturday no call back, Sunday a text saying that when the Notary got to their office they would follow up with Fedex. Then nothing since Sunday's Text. Fedex has no record of any package leaving that Notaries address to get to our office.

I had to consult with an attorney because I've got to get those originals back to the borrower and finally get copies to the lender to clear this file to close. This is insane, I've never had this happen before and it's pretty terrifying to have to chase down a notary. I even took time out to go to the County in question, went to the notaries "office" and found noone, left messages, emails, text's you name it.

The attorney says that action can be taken but, I am trying to see what we can muster on our own. Why would a notary do such a thing? I don't even know if I can repair my reputation with the client at this point. How can I? If I can't track down the notary I hired?

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/17/08 7:19am
Msg #243794

Okay, shooting from the hip...

I am not accusing anyone of anything. Just a gut reaction.

I have seen other "professionals" behaving this way...falling off the face of the earth...I worked for one a long time ago...there are "ongoing personal issues" I'll almost bet you. They cratered due to some addiction, depression or serious family issues that are taking precedence over anything else in their life.

Ask the lawyer write them a letter...certified and regular mail. If they are swirling down the toilet of life they won't go to the post office for certified mail because yours isn't the only one they are getting.

However, a "gentle" letter from a lawyer will get their attention and they will hear the ring of importance.

Time to act.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:22am
Msg #243797

Re: Okay, shooting from the hip...

Thanks Brenda, I actually don't want the letter to go out but, it might be my last hope. For the clients and my notaries sake, I have to do something.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/17/08 7:46am
Msg #243802

My 'mom' radar just went off ...

If this person was my child, I'd suspect something happened to those docs and they're scared to come clean.

Wonder - most people have Trusts done by attorney's, perhaps the quickest fix now is to get another original done by their atty, and to pay for it.

Reply by Merry_CA on 4/17/08 12:23pm
Msg #243823

Re: Questions, Joy...

Maybe NY has different requirements.... but, I would never let my original Living Trust out of my possession. I have been asked for them by TC before but always copies or just fax over to them. Why would such critical docs be out of the hands of the owner?

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/17/08 12:41pm
Msg #243830

Merry...That's a very good point. n/m

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 4/17/08 12:56pm
Msg #243833

Re: Questions, Joy...

It is common to require the orginal trust to be sent back cases

Reply by SharonMN on 4/18/08 3:42pm
Msg #244031

Re: Questions, Joy...

It definitely sounds like something is going on here because the notary isn't completely out of touch - you're getting periodic excuses.

It's worthwhile to note, however, that most of us are one-person shops run out of a home. Overnights will generally be dropped at a FedEx/UPS office or drop box (and often we put the recipient's address as the sender to avoid getting billed if the account number is no good!) It is likely that no one will physically be at the office address during the day. If the notary decides to take vacation time, you may not be able to reach them. (I can see this happening - notary completes the signing, sends back the docs, believes all current obligations to clients are tied off, leaves on a cruise the next day and comes back a week later to find frantic messages from the lender because the courier lost the overnight package.)

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/16/08 10:24pm
Msg #243767

Re: Notary incomplete assignment and unable to reach by phon

<<<Or as a notary have you ever been this unprofessional with good excuse?>>>

Oxymoron question.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 4/16/08 10:46pm
Msg #243769

Re: Notary incomplete assignment and unable to reach by phon

Joy, we once had a signing agent complete a signing, her communication was good, she let me know the appointment time, and when the assignment was completed she let me know

That was the last time I heard from her, no docs delivered no return calls, finally after about 5 days we spoke to the SA''s mother, she had gotten into a car accident and was still in the hospital in pretty bad shape. 2 month later I called to make sure she had recovered and she had.

In the mean time and within 3 days, new docs were signed.
you as a SS needs to be proactive and fix this, and move on. Its all about damage control. You call it unprofessional, not sure about that, but there are many things that could of happened that were not of the control of the SA.

as far as ss not posting on this site, so far Harry still allows SS to post.
and this board can be useful to SS as well.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/17/08 6:44am
Msg #243781

My 2 cents - regarding clients posting

I’m always happy to see CLIENTS coming into our forums. Cross-communication between the NSA world and our clients on a larger, broader scale would allow a better understanding between us – of what we both need, what we both do, what things could be done on both ‘sides’ to improve our services, etc. I’d love to see ‘equal opportunity’ supported for that, including our clients’ complaints about specific NSA’s equal to our complaints about specific clients – my only caveat is that I do not believe in the practice of posting anonymously.

We readily claim we’d like to see our industry cleaned up and held to greater accountability. We’re always wondering “is there a black-list or a forum where clients rate us?”. I’m sure there are ratings on databases all over – I’d LOVE to see it, I’d love to be held accountable and am ready & willing to have my accountability ‘rating’ public – AND thereby allowing the opportunity to hold clients JUST as accountable for their comments ABOUT me, should the need arise. What BETTER form of marketing could there be? It just baffles me – we talk about them, but don’t allow them to talk about us. We can anonymously slam their company, and then slam them if they try to present their side. It just isn’t the best means of creating effective communication.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:20am
Msg #243795

Re: My 2 cents - regarding clients posting

Thanks ReneeK, I would like to post our signing companies name however, I do not want to scare my notaries off. I am not on here to grade my notaries, or to slam this one particular notary either. There aren't too many forums for us to post on and I dont' know about other companies but, we do not have black list nor do we keep tabs on other sites/notaries. This is my first time posting about this kind of a scenario because, believe it or not, it's the first time this has come up. Notaries have been 100% with my company, that's why we've been able to keep a steady stream of work coming through. We don't contract with a client for 150 on a refi and then pay the notary 60, we come from being closer's ourselves and we definitely do not believe in undercutting. The convenience for my husband and I is that I can raise my children. Simple.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:16am
Msg #243791

Re: Notary incomplete assignment and unable to reach by phon

Thanks SoCal, I agree. When I've reached out, I have said, "I hope your okay" etc.. The notary seemed like they were amazing so, I have thought that perhaps they had to go out of town on an emergency, been hospitalized, I don't want to jump to conclusions but, I was a closer and I'd had my back up. I always had my cell, laptop or husband. Someone or thing that could get a message out to my assignment if, for some reason, I couldn't follow through. You're right, I am trying to do damage control. If I lose a client, my notaries lose work, I know what it's like to be out there as the notary. When a client loses a contract, works slows for the closer. I am trying to fix the situation as best I can but, unfortunately those docs are the only thing that can make that happen.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 4/17/08 10:37am
Msg #243813

Re: Notary incomplete assignment and unable to reach by phon

I think Joy's issue is that there HAS been contact with the SA, but for some reason nothing is coming through. I would tend to agree with the other poster's 'mom' radar that something screwed up with the docs. Possibly the SA is a newbie at loan signing and is afraid to come clean on what happened.

I don't think identity theft would be an issue here as Joy was able to visit an office where the SA conducts business.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:12am
Msg #243789

Re: Notary incomplete assignment and unable to reach by phon

I've never had a notary not follow through. All of the notaries I've worked with have been great, professional, honest, this is a first for me.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/16/08 11:08pm
Msg #243771

Hi, Joy. Good questions. Absconding with original docs

is a serious issue.

1. "I'd like to get your input." This is my take:

2. "My service hired a Notary to do pre-signing work." Notary assumed duty to complete the assignment.

3. "The notary retrieved the orginal paperwork " Notary completed retreival duty.

4. "...never forwarded it and cannot be reached by phone, email, text etc." Notary breached duty.

"What could be going on with this notary" Notary could have fallen victim to an unavoidable circumstance which, is preventing completion of her duty to deliver. An accident, or sickness? Is there a way to track this notary through her credentials to inquire as to her well-being?

Barring some catastrophe, I'd say she was flat out negligent. Your lawyer will calculate the damages, and if she's not judgement-proof, there could be a satisfactory outcome.

Best stab by layperson that I am.

Best of luck.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:24am
Msg #243798

Re: Hi, Joy. Good questions. Absconding with original docs

Exactly. I do not wish to hurt the Notaries reputation, I just want her to return the docs at this point. The attorney was not as kind in his words as you have been and so, I am still trying to contact the notary before this goes to the next step. I really can't wait one more day though.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/17/08 6:42am
Msg #243780

Actually, since you asked, yes I have ...

…and I don’t find it difficult to imagine a thousand horrors that could explain this situation. In a heartbeat, your whole life can change – no matter how careful you are, or how professional. I became a (shudder) “no show notary” when I recently fell down the stairs and broke my leg, just as I was leaving for the closing. I had to call 911, and in the commotion that followed I never thought about my cell phone until I was in an ambulance. Without my cell phone, I was pretty much cut-off from everyone and vice-versa – and in spite of the situation, I was absolutely sick (even pre-occupied) over being a ‘no show’. First thing I did when my husband arrived was ask him to TRY to find a phone number for the client – but I was pretty heavily morphined, and couldn’t even remember what state they were in.

I will never forget the messages I found on my cell when I finally got back home – 9 voice mails, every single one of them hugely concerned about ME, and not one mention of the closing or the borrower. “PLEASE call us, no matter what time, we’re SO worried about you …” I can’t tell you what that meant to me – to have them assume something horrid happened, to have them consider MY well being over and above the loan closing. Well, like I said, I’ll never forget that.

My hope is this person is okay, or at least will BE okay soon. There’s plenty of things that can happen to a person that really do kick a signing assignment down the list of Things To Think About Right Now. Cell phones and people can be separated in a lot of horrific ways.

Some clients ask for an “emergency contact number”. Kudo’s to them – and I always give them one, when they ask. Definitely a good plan.

Reply by Joy_NYC on 4/17/08 7:26am
Msg #243799

Re: Actually, since you asked, yes I have ...

Renee, that's a great idea for future reference. I am going to ask tech to put that on all of our forms. I didnt' think about if and I honestly would not have, had this not come up.

Thanks

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/17/08 7:42am
Msg #243800

That's why we say "Live and Learn" instead of ...

"Learn and Live"! =)

Also, I have a notebook for my husband, just in case ... listing the forums I use, where my clients' lists are, my records, my web profiles, what to do, who to call, etc, everything he might need to know about my 'world' that he's not involved in. I just kept the notebook on my desk for a couple months, jotting things in there as I'd use them or think of them.

Reply by CF on 4/17/08 7:53am
Msg #243803

Re: Actually, since you asked, yes I have ...

Providing nothing bad has happened to this notary....possibly you could overnight her a demand for the docs.....require a signature....and that you way you can prove that it was received. I cant imagine that a notary knowing that they had original copies of somethting would not send it back.....try and find this person on a people search....maybe she thought that it was dropped and maybe the carrier has lost it. I understand that you need a tracking # to verify this.

Just a thought- I really do hope that this person is OK.

Reply by Ndwa on 4/17/08 12:43pm
Msg #243832

Re: Actually, since you asked, yes I have ...

Joy, have you considered or tried getting someone (another notary) out to the MIA notary's residence. I've been there (livelihood being challenged) and know how you feel. I hope you still have the account with this client after the dust settled.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/17/08 3:47pm
Msg #243870

This may have absolutely nothing to do with your notary's situation, but this thread reminded me of the time I went to a drop box for supplies and found someone's package stuck in the top area for supplies, undelivered. It was dated a month prior! I just dumped it into the bin where it belonged, but I couldn't help wondering who got chewed out -- or lost their job - or lost a client, etc. because of that one dumb mistake! (Naturally, that wouldn't explain a notary MIA or unreachable...)