Posted by Les_CO on 4/2/08 12:26pm
Msg #241782

Question for Florida Notaries

Please!
I have a purchase closing tomorrow here in CO on a FL property. I assume the buyers are (live) here, and the sellers there. I don’t know as I’ve not seen any docs yet. It seems to me on a purchase, FL requires two witnesses, one can be the notary? And this would be on the seller’s side? The buyers (here) unless a cash deal (I think not), will sign a note/mortgage requiring no witnesses? Or maybe one? I have spoken with Title, and they are not exactly sure. I don't want to screw this one up. Any help will be much appreciated! TIA!!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/2/08 12:39pm
Msg #241785

Mortgages do not need witnesses, however deeds, such as grant deeds, warranty deeds, quit claim deeds do need two witnesses and one may be the notary. (have witnesses print their name under their signature)

Reply by desktopfull on 4/2/08 12:44pm
Msg #241787

"Mortgages do not need witnesses"

Every mortgage I have ever gotten the lender and TC have required witnesses. When did it change?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/2/08 12:50pm
Msg #241791

Witnesses are not required - however the lender or TC can request witnesses. But Florida law does not require them.

In the past I had signings where the company was asking for witnesses. Borrowers wouldn't (or couldn't) provide any, so I e-mailed the relevant statute to the company and they agreed that the mortgage didn't need witnesses.

Reply by PAW on 4/2/08 12:55pm
Msg #241795

Been that way for a long, long time.

If the lender or TC have any questions, they need to consult their underwriting manuals.

For example, the following is an excerpt from the Stewart Underwriting Manual:

Conveyances

The customary form of conveyance is the FL Deed-Warranty 1. Other common forms of conveyance include the following:

* FL Deed-Warranty (Special) 1
* FL Deed-Fee Simple 1
* FL Deed-Quitclaim 1
* FL Deed-Warranty (Corporation) 1
* FL Deed-Warranty (Corporation-Special) 1
* FL Deed-Fee Simple (Corporation) 1
* FL Deed-Quitclaim (Corporation) 1

Quitclaim deeds are not acceptable forms of conveyance for insuring purposes.

In the case of an individual, two witnesses must sign the document of conveyance. See Florida Statutes Sec. 689.01. In the case of a corporation, no witnesses are required to sign the document of conveyance if it is executed by the corporation’s CEO, president or vice president, and the conveyance contains a corporate seal. If the deed is executed by a corporate officer other than the CEO, president or vice president and it does not contain a corporate seal, two witnesses are required as well as a corporate resolution authorizing the officer to execute deeds or the particular deed.

If a conveyance document has been executed and acknowledged in accordance with the laws of another state, it is acceptable for recordation and constructive notice in Florida if it is executed with the same formalities as those required for a deed executed in the State of Florida. Therefore, if the state in which the deed was executed and acknowledged does not require two witnesses to a conveyance, it will not be acceptable for recordation purposes in Florida.


Security Instruments

The customary security instrument is the Mortgage document. Deeds of Trust are rarely used because Florida does not recognize non-judicial sales pursuant to a power of sale.

Witnesses are not required for mortgages executed by an individual or a corporation.

In the case of a corporation, if a mortgage is signed by the president, any vice president or chief executive officer and sealed with the corporate seal, it is acceptable.

If the corporation seal is not impressed on the mortgage, then the resolution of the board of directors granting the person signing the authority to act on behalf of the corporation should be attached to the mortgage.

If a mortgage has been executed and acknowledged in accordance with the laws of another state, it is acceptable for recordation and constructive notice in Florida if it has been executed by the same formalities as those for a deed in the State of Florida.

Reply by desktopfull on 4/2/08 12:41pm
Msg #241786

Yes, FL requires two witnesses on the mortgages and the notary can be one of the witnesses. But you need to follow the notary procedures for your state for the acknowledgements etc.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/2/08 12:46pm
Msg #241789

"Yes, FL requires two witnesses on the mortgages "

Florida is not a witness state as far as the mortgage goes.
The Florida Statute governing the recording conveyances of real estate is section 695.03(1).

You will find a link to it at this URL.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/

RECORD OF CONVEYANCES OF REAL ESTATE
695.03 Acknowledgment and proof; validation of certain acknowledgments;
legalization or authentication before foreign officials.--To entitle any
instrument concerning real property to be recorded, the execution must
be acknowledged by the party executing it, proved by a subscribing
witness to it, or legalized or authenticated by a civil-law notary or
notary public who affixes her or his official seal, before the officers
and in the form and manner following:

(1) WITHIN THIS STATE.--An acknowledgment or proof made within this
state may be made before a judge, clerk, or deputy clerk of any court; a
United States commissioner or magistrate; or a notary public or
civil-law notary of this state, and the certificate of acknowledgment or
proof must be under the seal of the court or officer, as the case may
be. All affidavits and acknowledgments heretofore made or taken in this
manner are hereby validated.

However, the statues do require two (2) witnesses for deeds that convey property

Florida Statutes Chapter 689.01 How real estate conveyed.--
No estate or interest of freehold, or for a term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments shall be created, made, granted, transferred or released in any other manner than by instrument in writing, signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party creating, making, granting, conveying, transferring or releasing such estate, interest, or term of more than 1 year, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, unless by will and testament, or other testamentary appointment, duly made according to law; and no estate or interest, either of freehold, or of term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in, to or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments, shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, or by the act and operation of law.

Reply by desktopfull on 4/2/08 1:36pm
Msg #241805

Thanks for the link Sylvia, my companies still insist on

witnesses, maybe I'll forward this link to a few of them. Like it will make any difference, they get something stuck in their heads and it's almost impossible to get them to let go of the idea, LOL. :^)

Reply by Les_CO on 4/2/08 1:16pm
Msg #241802

I LOVE THIS SITE!! And the helpful, caring, and knowledgeable contributors here!!!!
THANK YOU!!!!!

Reply by MW/VA on 4/2/08 7:08pm
Msg #241857

I could be wrong about this, but I thought you followed the laws of your notary state & not the laws of the state where the property is.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/2/08 7:16pm
Msg #241858

My take is that you absolutely DO follow the rules for your sate in regards to the notarizations.

However, if the recorder's office in the other state requires witness signatures to record the mortgage, then witnesses should be used for that doc. I seem to remember having to do that when I notarized a Mortgage or DOT (can't remember which they use) for a Louisiana property. Two witnesses were required, and it could NOT be the notary.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/2/08 7:18pm
Msg #241859

I should add that I do not provide the witnesses - the borrowers must round them up.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/2/08 7:22pm
Msg #241860

Witnesses on mortgages have nothing to do with notary laws. They have to do with Real Estate laws, and for witness requirements you must follow the laws where the property is located.
Having said that, the title company should be the one knowing the RE laws where the property is located.