Posted by VioCa on 8/3/08 5:14pm
Msg #258347

Answer to my question

I have posted a question a few days ago regarding if it is up to the CA notary to make a personal judgment about somebody's identity and if it is acceptable to combine two valid forms of IDs into one name to be able to Notarize.
Here is the answer, I called SOS and after speaking with several people and a supervisor, I was told that it is a no no to proceed. Most of you answerd that it is ok to do that so I felt that I have to clarify this issue. It is the lenders fault by not checking the name on the id before drawing the docs, so let them fix it and then we can proceed.
We have to have at least one matching ID with the docs and we cannot combine two of them into one name. We can ask for the second ID if we have a doubt that the person in front of us is not the one that is suppose to sign the papers, if the signature does not match, the physical description of the person etc, but if there are less names on the id versus the docs even if the missing name can be located on a different ID but on this new one there are other required names missing, then we should walk away.
Begining this year, we cannot notarize a maiden name when the id shows the married name even if they bring proof of marriage. How can a notary be sure that the proof is legit?
I suppose that every notary should be doing this job based on personal standards and obeing the law. This was my call, and I am sorry if I have upset anybody but I felt that I would break the law and it turned that I would have if I had notarized that loan.
If I lose a client over this I am sad, if I'm lucky I will gain another one one day, but if I lose my freedom, than I lost everything, so, sorry but I cannot risk that. Perjury is like forgery so the penalty for that is jail time because it is considered a felony.
This applies mostly to California Notaries, in other states the rules could be different so it would be ok, maybe or maybe not, I do not know that.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/3/08 5:39pm
Msg #258348

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

Good for you on checking this through. The main thing is that you followed you gut instinct and was correct in your decision. Thanks for the update.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 8/3/08 6:51pm
Msg #258350

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

As a notary, it would be very sensible for you to do what the SOS staff told you to. In the case of a married woman who owned property in her maiden name, and all her ID in the former name is too old to use, she could have several recourses:

-find two credible witnesses, and put all her ID away before the notary arrives.
-if two credible witnesses and the notary are present, put her id in a friend's briefcase, have the friend lock the briefcase, and say she no longer possesses any ID.
-sue the SOS and the legislature on the grounds that they have taken her property without just compensation, in violation of her constitutional rights.
-travel to a state where the legislature is not quite so asinine and have the deed notarized there.

Reply by VioCa on 8/3/08 7:08pm
Msg #258351

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

Isn't it easier to have the lender redraw the docs with the name matching the id? This kind of debate would have never happened if the broker, lender etc had done their job right. We have no control over that but they have. And then it is not right to demand us to let it go the way it is. It is not fun to face people that do not have proper ID. For me this kind of a situation is always scarry, who knows how bad they need the loan and if they feel that the deal is in jeopardy who knows what they are capable of. Well, nothing ever happened, but once I felt treatened and it was no fun. I had to exercise my ability to run fast.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/3/08 7:31pm
Msg #258354

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

Maybe it's asinine for someone to change their name and not file a quit claim changing their name on their deed at the same time. It certainly isn't asinine for a notary to obey the notary law of their state. If I'm not mistaken California no longer allows credible witnesses or personally known to the notary, the person must present a government issued id that shows the name on the paper work they are signing. After all it's the borrower's responsibilty to make sure that everything is correct and if not fix it, instead of creating a problem for someone else.

Reply by VioCa on 8/3/08 7:47pm
Msg #258356

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

Most of the times the borrowers do not know that the name on the docs has to match the id and if it does not match they do not understand how that it cannot be notarize. Here is how it should work, the loan agent has to ask for id before starting anything and if the name has changed from the date when the original loan was recorded to the day of this new loan application, then he has to make sure to submit the loan application in the new name. After that it is the TC's job to prepare a Quitclaim Deed from the old name to the new one. This is not legal advice, it is an observation on many loans that were prepared by competent Loan Agents and Escrow Officers

Reply by Gerry_VT on 8/3/08 8:06pm
Msg #258360

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

desktopful commented "After all it's the borrower's responsibilty to make sure that everything is correct and if not fix it, instead of creating a problem for someone else". The California legislature changed the rules during the game. Suppose Mary Adams marries John Baker and becomes Mary Baker in 1990. She does nothing with her deed; she can always go to a notary personally and knows she was Mary Adams. All her ID in her maiden name has expired. After the ID has expired, the California legislature decides notaries can't use personal knowledge. She can't quitclaim, because she can't get the quitclaim deed notarized. So what is she supposed to do?

Reply by VioCa on 8/3/08 8:16pm
Msg #258362

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

To Gerry. There is a way to do it through a Quitclaim Deed, but I cannot post the wording on this board because it could be considered legal advice. I have seen it done many times. The problem is that TC's prefer not to boder with it and just try to find a Notary that will do it the way it is. And the sad part is that most of the times they succed in finding one.

Reply by VioCa on 8/3/08 10:48pm
Msg #258373

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

Bother not boder, I do not know where that came from,it is a mistake a made on my previous post

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/4/08 1:23am
Msg #258380

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

"but I cannot post the wording on this board because it could be considered legal advice."

Unlike telling us what the law says about proper ID? Just because the SOS office told you that, you're the one posting it on this board, so you're the one giving the advice.

And I'm not afraid of that anyway, nobody is going to sue me as representing myself as a legal professional simply because of what I post here.

The answer is you notarize the current name, the wording on the deed is (current name) who took title as (former name).

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/3/08 10:06pm
Msg #258368

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

<<<If I'm not mistaken California no longer allows credible witnesses or personally known to the notary, the person must present a government issued id that shows the name on the paper work they are signing.>>>

CA does allow CW's - they must have ID. A single CW must have ID and be known by both Notary and signer. Two CW's do not have to know the Notary...just the signer. All signers, whether known by Notary or not must now have ID - no more "personal knowledge"...you are correct on that.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/4/08 12:03am
Msg #258375

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

Thanks for letting me know I knew they had changed a lot of the notary procedures last year. I also don't understand why people have so many different names on their id's, they should decide what name they want to use and stick with it instead of having a bunch of aliases. It would definitely make their lives easier.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/3/08 10:13pm
Msg #258369

Re: Answer to my question (Msg #258042)

<<<<....and put all her ID away before the notary arrives......put her id in a friend's briefcase, have the friend lock the briefcase, and say she no longer possesses any ID.>>>>

I am aware of what the CA handbook says, however, a useless ID is really no ID AT ALL and the ONLY way to then ID a signer is....with CW's. I do not have clients hide ID, lock it away, pretend it wasnt' there or any other baloney.