Posted by Calnotary on 8/5/08 8:43am
Msg #258562

Anybody drives a "Natural Gas Vehicle"

Specially in Utah where the gallon is less than a dollar. Here in CA there are places that the cheapest place I have seen is in the Ontario area where the gallon is around 1.78 I do not know what is the waiting period at the Honda dealer to get one, but Honda is the only car maker that you can buy a NGV . My closest natural gas pump is like 4 miles and I been thinking really serious on buying one of this vehicles. Or I should wait another year and get a Honda Accord diesel with 50mpg but@five bucks a gallon. My local NG pump is not as cheap as in ONtario but at 2.19 is not bad! Thank you for your comments and replies.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/5/08 8:53am
Msg #258563

I know of nowhere I could buy natural gas for a vehicle, but maybe things are different in CA.
I would be worried that I would be "out there" needing fuel and couldn't find a place to fill up.

Reply by PAW on 8/5/08 9:05am
Msg #258566

FYI -

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 14, 2008


EMANUEL ANNOUNCES NEW PROPOSAL TO INCREASE THE USE OF NATURAL GAS

WASHINGTON, D.C.—At a press conference in Chicago, Rep. Rahm Emanuel today announced plans to introduce legislation that will compel automakers to make 10 percent of their fleet vehicles that run on natural gas by the year 2018. Emanuel’s proposal also includes incentives and tax credits that will result in the addition of natural gas pumps at 20,000 fueling stations across the country. The legislation will be formally introduced later this week.

“This proposal is a hat trick for America: it's good for our environment, good for our national security and good for drivers who are suffering at the pump. Natural gas is cheap, green and American-made and it’s time we encouraged the use of natural gas vehicles here in America,” said Emanuel. “American drivers should be able to buy a car that runs on a cleaner fuel that is currently half the cost of gas. Developing cars that run on natural gas and making it available at the gas station or at home will save money for consumers and help end our dependence on foreign oil.”

Emanuel’s legislation would compel automakers to make 10% of their fleet vehicles that run on natural gas by the year 2018. The bill would also offer new incentives to make natural gas more readily available for drivers and could enable the construction of natural gas pumps at 20,000 gas stations across the country. The legislation:

Offers a $90,000 tax credit to encourage gas station owners to install natural gas fuel pumps.
Provides $2.6 billion in bonding authority to states to provide no or low-interest loans to service stations to install natural gas pumps.
Requires the gas stations owned by the major oil companies to install at least one natural gas pump in each station by 2018.
Includes tax credits for drivers who convert their cars to allow them to run on natural gas and for those Americans who own home “Phill” units, a simple device that can be installed in a garage that allows drivers to use their home natural gas line to refuel their car.
Currently, natural gas costs about half of the price of gasoline and produces approximately one-third less emissions. Additionally, 98% of the natural gas Americans currently consume is produced in North America and current estimates indicate that America has a 118 year supply of natural gas.

“The United States has abundant natural gas reserves,” added Emanuel. “It’s time to start making those reserves work for us.”

American automakers have the technology to produce vehicles that run on natural gas. General Motors currently makes four different natural gas vehicles in Europe and Asia and Ford has previously built natural gas vehicles that were used in the House of Representatives.

The Emanuel legislation would also create jobs and help offset recent declines in the SUV and light truck market. Estimates indicate that increased demand for natural gas powered vehicles and natural gas production could create 500,000 US energy industry jobs.


###

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To find a CNG station, try "MapMuse" - http://find.mapmuse.com/interest/cng

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/5/08 10:33am
Msg #258575

Re: FYI - Counterpoint

Wish I could give you a link, but it's a rural electric co-ops monthly newletter with an article entitled "The high price of natural gas" which states:
1) The price of natural gas has tripled since 2002 & jumped 93% since 8/07.
2) According to the U.S. Energy Info Admin., if NG consumption continues at its current rate without an increase in imports, national reserves will be tapped out within 10 years.

It also makes the statement (in re electricity---their main concern) that NG has become the 'bridge' fuel of choice for keeping the lights on, at least until new low-emissions technologys are developed on a large scale.
The only link given is www.ourenergy.coop (which I haven't visited) but assume it to be related to various methods of producing electricity.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/08 10:46am
Msg #258578

Re: FYI -counterpoint

"current estimates indicate that America has a 118 year supply of natural gas."

These figures are incorrect as well. Many times projections are made calculating geometrically when they should be calculated expotentially.

"The Emanuel legislation would also create jobs and help offset recent declines in the SUV and light truck market."

I wonder if Emanuel owns SUV? or stock in automaker's of said vehicles?

Reply by Calnotary on 8/5/08 11:02am
Msg #258580

Re: FYI -counterpoint

Well in CA you could get a 4K dollar Fed Income tax credit, if AMT doesn't kick in. Plus there is a State credit too.

Reply by LynnNC on 8/5/08 11:06am
Msg #258581

Re: FYI -counterpoint

And when driving on a trip, where would you be able to fill up with natural gas?

Reply by Calnotary on 8/5/08 11:18am
Msg #258584

Re: FYI -counterpoint

This is just a commuter car or for us that drive in a certain area and you have a local filling station. If is going to be your only car in your household, no you won't be able to fill your tank in your trip. But who has only one car nowdays?

Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/08 12:32pm
Msg #258606

me...one car n/m

Reply by Gerry_VT on 8/5/08 12:50pm
Msg #258609

Re: FYI -counterpoint

If you have a natural gas line, you can get a device to fill your vehicle at home (at least with the Honda). Something to check out: with gasoline, a gallon is pretty much a gallon. With compressed gas, how much gas is in a gallon depends on how hard it's compressed. You would have to check to see if the energy in the gallon sold for a couple of dollars at a station is the same as the gallon used to figure the EPA fuel economy of the Honda (24 city).

Reply by LynnNC on 8/5/08 2:01pm
Msg #258640

Re: FYI -counterpoint

24 mpg on the city doesn't seem worth the trouble to me!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/5/08 1:24pm
Msg #258616

Re: FYI -counter-counterpoint

Most fuesl for internal combustion engines have major drawbacks and most people take the best fit nd go with it. As for me I'm all for H2. There are drawbacks to H2 also since its exhaust is water vapor it is very hard on reciprocating and rotary parts in your engine: the steam quickly washes off any lubricants. However with ceramic bearings and ceramic combustion chamber parts much of the downside can be overcome. Additionally with the inexorable trend toward nuclear energy creating H2 will be extremely cost effective and should result in gasoline like energy at H2O prices (tapwater).

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/5/08 1:16pm
Msg #258615

Re: FYI -Additionally CNG vehicles last a lot longer

CNG burns so clean that oil maintains its lubricity and the compustion chamber parts stay clean. CNG also has a lower specific heat from Gasoline and so everything runs cooler. When I lived in Orange County full time I owned a car that ran on CNG and typically people I know would go 250,000 miles without any problems with their engines. CNG is so good that major utilities and governement entities use CNG for their vehicles. But there isn't a CNG station within 150 miles of me now.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/5/08 11:16am
Msg #258582

How about one of these...

http://www.smartusa.com/

Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/08 12:31pm
Msg #258605

It is still gas, and there are others that get better mpg n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/5/08 1:26pm
Msg #258617

It's tough to beat my bicycle for gas consumption! n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/5/08 11:47am
Msg #258591

What is the sticker price on the Honda? I know the Civic hybrid is about $7K more than the regular version, it takes a long time before you make up the premium price with the savings on gas. Is CA still giving away the clean air stickers for natural gas cars? That is a definite selling point, the time savings adds up a lot quicker than the gas savings.

Reply by SharonMN on 8/5/08 12:19pm
Msg #258600

Figure out how many miles you drive and the price per mile of your current car. Then figure out the price per mile of the car you''re considering. Keep in mind that you won't save anything until you've paid off the cost of trading up to the new vehicle with your fuel savings. Don't forget any extra insurance premium. And, as someone else pointed out, you may not even be able to drive the NG vehicle on a trip due to the lack of fuel stations, so you'd need to account for car rental fees for trips.

In many cases, it's cheaper to keep driving your old car.

Reply by Calnotary on 8/5/08 2:45pm
Msg #258659

24,500 MSRP...

But you can drive yourself on the diamond lanes. Home refuelling is not worth it. Phil is like 3K plus it needs a rebuilt in just a few thousand hours of work, plus in my case my garage is underneath my bedroom and it takes
like one hour per gallon compressed. And the unit uses like 800watts/hour. If you refill at home it costs like
1.50 per gallon of gge(gas gallon equivalent)and your home gas consumption goes to a lower rate and if you have pool to warm it really adds to a good discount. But still not cost effective.