Posted by Henry Davidson on 8/27/08 11:06pm
Msg #262140

FASS/LSI and the end game....heads up.

FASS has sent their scheduling offshore a while ago.. they just dont let those people talk with customers direct...yet, only notaries for now. Glad to see the boards is up to date.

Brian, LSI, is asking this board his question because he needs to get to the lowest cost possible for communication to contact/hire a qualified notary. He already has thousands of qualified notaries that work at his fees, covering the entire nation, in his database. Any signing company has this already.

The end game is the service that will prequalify bidders (notaries), and notify each individual bidder via email, text page, and voicebroadcast that there is an auction going on in their service area for a particular closing, with a full description of such closing. It might have a lowball "buy now" price of say $40, which will be up to the customer to decide. If you dont want it at that price, you could bid say $45 or $60 or whatever. If it doesnt get "bought now" the lowest prequalified bidder will win the auction for that closing. The reverse auctioned clsoing.

Make mistakes..get complaints..your no longer a "qualified bidder" and removed as such. Everyone will be under the full ranking system. I'd like to see past borrower feedback about each notary also...if I were a potential customer of this service.

This would drive down every cost associated with a closing and be the most effective way to scale the model to 100,000 closings per month. They might even have the "oversight and service" managers of the actual site based offshore....now that I think about it. The site might even charge a "qualification" fee...monthly? annual? to the bidder/notary.

Tell me why the other hundred thousand notaries clamoring for work wont like this idea, especially if it's free, or tell me why Countrywide / BofA, won't like the fact it would shave at least 40% off their singing/closing expenses.

HDD

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/27/08 11:50pm
Msg #262141

Interesting position, makes notaries slaves, go for it

This is interesting, knuckle under and notaries become slaves to the SS. Unfortunately there are notaries who will buy into this "end game" to the demise of the NSA's in general. Think about it, I frankly have no dog in this fight. I'll continue to close my deals regardless of who does the closing but the independant contractor notary is going to be a historical figure, it works for me but it might not work for the notary. I've got a few friends here and I think that the independant notary signing business is about to get a run for their money. Let's see how low you go and still survive. Buy into this scheme at your own risk because you'll be working for less than moinimum wage. And frankly I don't give an ano rodentum what Hank thinks, he is as self serving as they come and I really don't think much of the average notary because they have no concept of what being in business means. Hank thinks that you guys are really stupid!

Reply by ZeeCA on 8/28/08 12:00am
Msg #262142

Why does YOUR ss care what he does? n/m

Reply by Derrick/MT on 8/28/08 12:12am
Msg #262145

I guess I do not understand why every Title company/Lender is looking to cut their costs associated with the notary/closing. Why not look at the rediculous cost that brokers charge to do the loan or look at the cost of the crappy title insurance cost. Of all the fees the one that makes the most sense is the closing fee all the other junk is away to bleed money out of the borrower and does nothing for them but pad the pockets of the greedy lender/title company

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/28/08 12:24am
Msg #262147

Actually Derrick, everyone charges based upon their

ability of perform a suervice of value. The reason that notaries are of such low value is because of the perceived value and also because there are notaries out there who don't have any idea of the value of their services. Appraisers charge what they charge because if you don't have an appraisal you don't have a loan. Loan originators charge what they charge because without the loan originator you have no loan. Title companies charge what they charge because without a title company you have no loan. Notaries charge what they charge because there are other notaries who have no idea what their servic is worth and will work for less. I hire notaries and I can get whatever I want for fees. I happen to be concerned that notaries get a reasonabled fee for their work and so I pay a reasonable fee, Signing Services have no such problems: whatever the notary doesn't charge goes into their pockets. Notaries have become a commodity because the cost of entry is low and there are a lot of hobbyists who have no idea of their costs. Unless notaries take control of the signing process they will always be a commodity and commodities are always cheap because the only difference in commodities is price. When did you price the cost of beans last!

Reply by Pat/IL on 8/28/08 1:05am
Msg #262149

Re: Good Pionts Charles

I would have given the appraiser and the title company a little tip of the hat for the services provided. The appraisers really seem to get the short end when it comes to understanding of the labor and expertise involved in their business. I spent a couple of weeks with an appraier many moons ago and will not soon be forgetting the awe that was inspired within.

Title is also a job that often is misunderstood to be easy money (in some cases, maybe it is). I wish more industry participants would take the time, and make the effort, to look at the bigger picture and understand the different roles.

I am not aiming this opinion at you, Charles, of course. Your post just gave me an opportunity to spout off. I am aware of your credentials. Cheers.

Reply by DianeCipa on 8/28/08 10:17am
Msg #262209

Guys, licensing would set a bar and protect qualified

independent closers. That's what licensing does, it screens out those who really haven't a clue.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/28/08 11:55am
Msg #262249

Re: Guys, licensing would set a bar and protect qualified

Sounds good in theory, but, face it, being an NSA isn't rocket science, so any 'screening' or 'test' just really won't cut it. Additionally, what's 'right' in one state is wrong in another. I have taken many so-called tests for different co's and have had to answer the question 'wrong' (for my state) in order for it to be 'right' in their opinion. Look at the XYZ and their 'certification'....while we see way too many newly 'certified' notaries coming here & other forums to ask the most basic of questions. In a limping along field, we don't need more worthless hoops to jump thru.

Reply by PAW on 8/28/08 12:22pm
Msg #262260

Licensing does nothing but increase the state/county coffers

There are many unqualified, but licensed "professionals" out there. Look at all the malpractice complaints and suits against doctors, lawyers, plumbers, electricians, etc. (Indian Chief's aren't licensed, and there are very few, if any, complaints filed against them. )

What is needed, imo, is an accepted form of certification based on a skills assessment learned by practice over time, not just theory and being able to read a book.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/28/08 1:02pm
Msg #262279

I agree Paul. California probably has he toughest test and

qualification process and yet judging from some of the questions asked on the boards it is not effective at raising the bar at all. Most schools in CA teach how to pass the test not how to be a qualified notary. Unfortunately the ability to pass a test is really not a great measure of the quality of your work.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/28/08 7:09am
Msg #262170

Reward the broker (salesman) - he makes $$
All others take (spend) money

Reply by Haynes Mobile Notary - Kathleen on 8/28/08 7:28am
Msg #262177

No way am I buying into this the price is right game either. We have to really start taking a stand here as to what we bring to the table. Everyday we are hearing more and more of this going on this past year.
If we are not there this deal is not closing bottom line. I will not pay for any lottery/service or the chance to work for half price (even if it is free to join). Half of nothing is nothing keep that in mind. Sure you want to come work at my business for "el cheapo" I will call you and not the experienced, dedicated, qualified notary down the street-that is not right. That being said also we must be worth what we claim performing with proper ethics and being reasonable so that we build those relationships for repeat calls.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 8/28/08 6:17am
Msg #262157

This approach appeals to the lowest common denominator of signing agent...wherein cost not quality becomes determinative of accomplishing the job. I can not imagine any attorney signing agents wishing to participate in this bargain basement approach to asignment of closings.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/28/08 6:47am
Msg #262159

**Tell me why the other hundred thousand notaries clamoring for work wont like this idea,**

You are right, Henry.

Now you tell me why those people work for non-profit/loss prices?

Is it really that impossible for so many people not to find other work to supplement their income?

Is business failure and then bankruptcy becoming a means to an end rather than a last resort?

Don't they realize that working like this is to fail at business and to put their financial well-being at risk?

JOB is not a filthy word. Many people (not just me, I promise) have realized that notary work can become profitable again if they seek JOBs or other sources to create positive cash flow.

It's almost like people like Henry are trying to convince the masses that there's only one way to have income...through taking loss-priced notary fees.

This is not going to cycle through as quickly as one might think. It will take years. Keep your focus on a positive cash flow...not a negative one. Don't abandon the notary business, just don't enslave yourself to taking whatever is offered...that's NOT freedom.

Many entrepreneurs work in order to follow their dreams until they can make a go of it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/28/08 6:51am
Msg #262161

"or tell me why Countrywide / BofA, won't like the fact it would shave at least 40% off their singing/closing expenses."

Please explain this to me...this is NOT a cost of the lender - this is a borrower expense - and after 25 years doing real estate closings in CT, you can't tell me that additional expenses are not tacked onto the borrowers' bottom line. EX: you "assume" notary will cost $90...notary fee is $150-$175 for whatever reason (distance, time)...title fees are adjusted accordingly and the extra added on to settlement fees.

Countrywide/BofA want to cut costs? - tell title to deal directly with the notary...oh wait, that would mean no SS's...that's another thread I guess...

And in response to this thread? I won't be participating in a signing "lottery"...no thanks..

Reply by NCLisa on 8/28/08 8:39am
Msg #262183

Cost Cutting

If BofA/Countrywide wants to cut costs, then the place to start is that useless white folder they send out via FedEx with all the booklets the borrower never reads, and the papers the borrower never signs. That right there would save them a small fortune in printing costs and overnight fees.

Reply by Henry Davidson on 8/28/08 8:52am
Msg #262185

[e-mail address] simply wrong...in many "institutional" accounts the fees are now included in the title and escrow fees and we have been pressured to lower our costs as an SS now "bundled into title/escrow. Most larger companies dont "charge" junk fees anymore....the borrower ends up taking an interest higher than they would have otherwise qualified for...generating YSP back to the LO. This means they are the ones writing the checks for my invoices...This also keeps SS's squarely in the middle...the last thing they want are their teams spending time calling notaries...they need to be closing another file.

[e-mail address] notaries, especially in towns like yours, although more populated, do not lose money at an SS'sfee schedule. As example, the average rent in your town is $596 and there are approx 74000 people, didnt check how many notaries. The rent is almost the same in say Cleveland, with many more people. That $596 is about a parking space in San Fran....Back to the reason why ALL the notaries there demand a higher fee. So if you did 15 closings for 60 bucks each and spent a thrid of that for costs you'd make rent money working what.. 20 something hours a week, maybe.\

Everyone is cutting costs everywhere ...none of us are special...it all rolls downhill...welcome to the bottom of the transaction heap...

HDD

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 8/28/08 9:30am
Msg #262190

I think a heard another signing service making a similar argument on this board last week. I was not impressed with it then...your argument is no more impressive.

Brenda is right. Rather than lowering their fees the signing agents should look for supplemental sources of income until the market improves. Once you lower your fee that client will never agree to an increase later. All the qualified signing agents need do is wait out the current business slump. The signing services and title companies will come to them when the volume is restored. The cheaper priced notaries will have been driven out of business because they can not cover their expenses at the prices you are proposing.

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/28/08 11:31am
Msg #262244

Exactly, Kevin...spot on!

"Rather than lowering their fees the signing agents should look for supplemental sources of income until the market improves."

While looking for ways to diversify my business, I was fortunate enough to find a very well paying gig that requires only 30-40 hours per month or 8-11 days per month. There are opportunities out there if you think outside the box, put the time in and do your research. I can tell you all first hand that there ARE legitimate biz ops on craigslist.

I'm doing more inspections then closings lately, but my package average remains @ $155. I'll be here when the market turns around (and it always does) ready to work with those that understand that NSAs are in business to make money for themselves not the SS, TC or lender.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/28/08 2:32pm
Msg #262316

I think a heard another signing service making a similar arg

<<<I think a heard another signing service making a similar argument>>>

Apparently, a few SS have gotten together posting in order to create drama and panic among the NSA's.

Don't drink the Kool-Aid, ladies and gentlemen. It's meant to brainwash you into believing their garbage. Fees have not decreased much...in fact, my regulars are paying the same amount they were a year ago, and a couple of semi-regulars have reduced fees by only $25.
These SS are charging what "we" are charging for direct work, but taking a hefty cut, and passing the so-called reduced fees in the guise of "volume" onto us.
Just keep marketing direct work, decline these ridiculous SS fees, and really think about either getting into a network, or forming one.

Reply by CF on 8/28/08 9:31am
Msg #262192

I am so sick of this $hit head coming on this board

and telling professional notaries how to run their business. It seems that your business is in jeapardy and that you are trying to "shock and awe" us into believing the sky is falling! Get a grip....if you have so many puppets working for you- then you should be busy enough!

I have news for you.....if you think that notaries are at the bottom of the heap- then your SS is beneath that! You DO NOTHING to get the loan closed and make everyone their cut- I am the notary and I am the ONE WITH THE STAMP THAT MAKES EVERYONE THEIR MONEY!!!!!! If you don’t like my fee- call the next one on the list! I have lots of things to do with my time vs. working for less than minimum wage!!!!!!!!!!!! Must be that you are having a hard time getting your orders covered and you are not able to perform for your clients. Or perhaps you did not factor in to your business plan that your schedulers will have to spend hours to set an appointment with your BS fess!!!!!!!!!!!

I swear you are like Sisyphus- keep on rolling your lowball rock up the hill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/28/08 9:57am
Msg #262201

I have already written NR about this new assault

on the board by this obvious troll named Henry.

He is nothing but a troll.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/28/08 9:33am
Msg #262194

Where do you get some of the notions you have? I take issue

with doing (your words) 15 closings/wk. equating with 20 hours. Maybe that's what you've got into a signing, but~~ Figuring just 1/2 hour RT, that eats up 7.5 hrs., leaving just approx. 40 minutes per signing. I'm good, but not that good. Forget about the time spent on the donkey work (QC, faxing & making another trip to drop docs, calling B, call or e-mail co. to Status.) Each task by itself doesn't take that long, but adding them up DOES. And these numbers only apply IF a signing is nearby. My time/distance 'average' is 1 1/2 hr. RT & 22 miles of slow-going mountain roads. Same is true of large cities & heavy traffic. I may seem like I'm picking on you, but really you just need a reality check, Henry.

Reply by WDMD on 8/28/08 10:11am
Msg #262208

"....Many notaries, especially in towns like yours, although more populated, do not lose money at an SS'sfee schedule. As example, the average rent in your town is $596 and there are approx 74000 people, didnt check how many notaries. The rent is almost the same in say Cleveland, with many more people. That $596 is about a parking space in San Fran....Back to the reason why ALL the notaries there demand a higher fee. So if you did 15 closings for 60 bucks each and spent a thrid of that for costs you'd make rent money working what.. 20 something hours a week, maybe.\"

Sorry, I just gotta respond to this assinine comment. Why do you keep posting garbage with figures that would only apply to a salaried employee with a fixed income? We are independent contractors. There is no way for us to know if we are going to do 20 signings this month or 5.
Your averages are a joke. My house payment is 4 times your figure. Rent here on a townhouse is $1800/month. Figure how many signings I'd have to do at your crap fees just to make that payment.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/28/08 10:42am
Msg #262221

I have never figured it out down to the minute in time, or down to the last sheet of paper, in costs, what the exact time/costs are for me to do a signing. My thinking although perhaps sewed, is simple. I spend less time, and it costs me less to do one $125 signing, than three $50 signings. So even though I gross more on three $50 jobs, I make more on one $125 job. I think I actually make money on a $125 signing, and lose money on a $50 signing. So if I lose money even only $10, why would I do one? And more importantly why would I do 50? The economics of scale work with some businesses, and not with others. Volume works for a SS because they have mostly fixed costs, where it may not work for say a Trucker. If he loses money on one trip, he loses ten times more on ten trips. Volume discounts do not work in this business.
I think my average time to do a closing is about three hours, some more some less. As far as costs…… figuring in vehicle cost, equipment, office supplies, phone/fax/computer lines, advertising, licensing, insurance, gas…and everything else….Heck..I just don’t really know? I may be losing money at $125 per. The trouble with this business is I work from home (I don’t rent an office) I use my car (I don’t rent one) Some of the phone, and computer stuff I already have. If I had to buy all this ‘separately’ I could find the ‘true costs’ involved.
The bottom line is that few in this business (except for maybe attorneys in attny states) really know, or calculate these ‘real’ costs. Many of us are part timers, doing this for pin money, and as long as some are willing to take $50 signings, there are those who will offer $50!

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/28/08 11:00am
Msg #262229

Hank, we're not buying what you're selling. Move on! n/m

Reply by Henry Davidson on 8/28/08 11:09am
Msg #262237

Dont buy it..watch it happen...from the sidelines.

Dont yell at me....It is the other million notaires in the country..not the ones here on this forum obviously ...that think the fees are fair...get them to demand $150 for an email set of docs and Ill have to turn and raise my price...where's our notary union?

As for the rest of the responses so far...believe it or not ...a lower cost model will arise like this or similar..this is what the fallout will produce.

Much like charles Schwab in 2000 with a 9 dollar stock trade. Undercutting every retail stockbroker in the country.

Glad to be of help...enjoy the rest of the week.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/28/08 11:34am
Msg #262245

Henry you act like a troll...you're pretty good at it, too! n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/28/08 11:49am
Msg #262248

"...where's our notary union?" UNION? We are ICs you MoMo!

We definitely don't want or need a union. Just look at what happened when the association that was suppose to help support our profession decided to jump into bed with Nation's largest Real Estate settlement providers.

Brenda's right. You are just an ugly troll.

Reply by Derrick/MT on 8/28/08 11:18am
Msg #262240

"or tell me why Countrywide / BofA, won't like the fact it would shave at least 40% off their singing/closing expenses."

I am thinking this post should have went under the political tab. You can spin this anyway you want but the closing fee is a fee that has no expense to it for the title company/lender just the borrower. The reason why Countrywide/BofA would like this model is that they can still charge the borrower the same price for the closing but get a service done for a cheaper price. They are not "shaving" expenses but increasing revenue.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/28/08 11:46am
Msg #262247

Yup! The less they pay..the more they keep. Hence Hindu schedulers, and $50 signing fees. It Still effects those of us trying to not do this at a loss.

Reply by Tish/CA on 8/28/08 2:17pm
Msg #262306

Henry, give it a rest

Your monotonous, know-it-all, higher than mighty attitude is boring AND predictable. Take it somewhere else. You have lost total credibilty here.

Fellow NSA's, I implore NOT to take work from this individual. He is nothing more than a self serving sabateur.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/28/08 2:43pm
Msg #262317

Considering the current status of his corporation

I wouldn't want to get involved with them - chances are they won't pay and you have no recourse!!