Posted by John_NorCal on 8/4/08 3:54pm
Msg #258484

Florida notaries, a question.....

Just got a call for a general notary. The fellow was applying for a job with a Florida based company, as part of the hiring process he received a form called, Verification of Passport. On this form was a notary signature block that stated in part, "I swear under penalty of perjury that I have examined the passport of the holder, it does not appear to be a copy, or altered in any way and that the holder has a legal right to work in the United States." Of course a California notary can not notarize something like that, just wondering in Florida law is different. This form was intended to accompany an I-9 which is usually filled out by the hiring party and since this was an out of state hiring I assume the company devised this form to take the place of personal observation of the official documents.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 8/4/08 4:59pm
Msg #258491

John, I would think since Ca. won't allow your notorizing the document you shouldn't do it. Your not a Fla. notary and it doesn't matter what the Fla. laws are. You have to abide by the Ca. laws.

Reply by ZeeCA on 8/4/08 5:24pm
Msg #258495

Ilene: That is NOT what he was asking........... n/m

Reply by GA/Atty on 8/4/08 5:45pm
Msg #258496

That is way more than a notarization, no matter what state

you are in.

Probably whoever created that form had good intentions but just mangled it.

Reply by kathy/ca on 8/4/08 5:57pm
Msg #258497

Secifically what are the reasons you cant notarize his

signature on this document?

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/4/08 6:21pm
Msg #258500

Re: Secifically what are the reasons you cant notarize his

<<<On this form was a notary signature block that stated in part, "I swear under penalty of perjury .................... the holder has a legal right to work in the United States.">>>>

The other part about examining the passport and it APPEARING to not be altered...wouldn't be a problem, but what Notary can attest that a stranger they've known but a minute has a right to work in the U.S.? I would not notarize a signature with that statement in the Notary's block.

Reply by kathy/ca on 8/4/08 6:39pm
Msg #258503

Yep, those were the obvious reasons, wanted to be sure

there wasnt something else to take into consideration.

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/4/08 9:21pm
Msg #258524

Oops LKT you missed that one.

I swear under penalty of perjury.... begins an affidavit.

He cannot swear the passport isn't altered then stamp it... he'd be notarizing his own signature and statement. (Much less that the fella has a legal right to work, yada yada).

If someone else swears that he can do a jurat to THEIR signature, or he can swear all that (assuming he knows it to be true) and SOMEONE ELSE can notarize his signature.

You can swear or you can stamp, but not both.

I agree with whoever above said it's probably just a screwed up document.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 8/4/08 9:29pm
Msg #258527

MAN! You folks are good. I love reading this forum. n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/5/08 1:03am
Msg #258545

Gary, you're right

What you said makes since......it's easy to get thrown off by the "under penalty of perjury" since that is part of the CA acknowledgment, which starts off "I certify"...

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/5/08 12:00pm
Msg #258595

Yep... and a confession.

Yeah, I noticed the common language too. The truth is that our notary certificates have always been a sort of affirmation... we swear that the dude named is the dude that signed, to the best of our knowledge. With the "under penalty of perjury" language it now reads like it has always been... the notaries testimony about the signature.

After all that about swearing vs stamping I feel obliged to admit that several times I have sworn and stamped the same document. Especially when I first got started and had too many stamp malfunctions (not the fault of the great stamp I bought here but from stamping on less than perfect surfaces). Some days I swore more than I stamped. I do that less now days.

All the best to you and yours.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/4/08 7:17pm
Msg #258508

The passport may be correct and so on, but how does that determine right to work in this country? That tells that the individual can travel out of the country. The social security card gives right to work.

Have to agree with another respondent: someone meant well, but mangled the job.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 8/4/08 7:30pm
Msg #258510

There are many reasons the notary shouldn't complete the form, expecially the idea of administering an oath to oneself and then notarizing it. However, passports are only issued to citizens, not aliens. (If a resident alien wanted to travel, he/she would use his/her foreign passport.) Citizens are allowed to work in the US. The instructions for the federal form completed by the employee and employeer say that a passport is sufficient proof of both identity and right to work.

Perhaps there are some rare exceptions, such as people living on South Pacific islands under the control of the U.S., but if so, the federal government doesn't seem to be worrying about it.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/4/08 8:29pm
Msg #258512

Passports are given by all countries. There was no distinction made as to US Passport.

Reply by PAW on 8/4/08 8:23pm
Msg #258511

The Department of State issued a directive (FR Doc E8-203) in January 2008 requiring access to passport records to assist in the verification of a passport. However, it sounds like this company has not taken proper steps to ensure that the passport that is being used for identification and right to work, is valid and therefore needs a third party verification. (Third party verification was the "old" way to do it when the applicant was not local to the hiring company.) However, even Florida notary laws do not authorize a notary to validate the authenticity of a document nor the contents therein. If the holder of the passport signed an affidavit to the validity and content of the passport, then the notary could give the oath and complete a jurat for the signer. That's the way we (Chase Manhattan) did it when I worked with them in NY.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/5/08 12:36am
Msg #258542

**If the holder of the passport signed an affidavit to the validity and content of the passport, then the notary could give the oath and complete a jurat for the signer.***

That's exactly how I handled it. I was just wondering if Florida was doing something different than other states. Obviously, as GA_ATTNY pointed out, someone has drafted their own document with out any kind of good advice.