Posted by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 8/20/08 2:52pm
Msg #260849

Notary Direct

Got a call yesterday for a deed signing for tonight on a time share. When I received the instructions, it said that a fees check would be part of the package that I was to collect and take to UPS. In Virginia you have to be CRESPA certified in order to handle funds at closing. I explained to the contact at Notary Direct and was told that it was Florida property and that I didn't need to be CRESPA certified. I explained that it didn't matter that is was Florida property, that this was Virginia law and not my law. She told me she would find someone else to do it and that none of her notaries where CRESPA certified. Does anyone else in Virginia run into this problem? It really made me mad as I am trying to do the right thing. Unbelievable.

Reply by Calnotary on 8/20/08 3:18pm
Msg #260853

Most of the hiring entities, they just want from us to close the deals and if you brake any laws or you put your commission in jeopardy they don't care. I quit working for that SS like more than 3 years ago.

Reply by davidK/CA on 8/20/08 3:29pm
Msg #260855

That's just one more thing wrong with SS

What can you expect when the SS aren't regulated like notaries are. No license, no insurance, just a phone and a fax and poof, you're a signing service!

Why should they care if the notary breaks the law? They can't be punished since nobody is watching how they run their business.

Yes, there are lots of ethical SS who believe in following the law, but I'm beginning to think that the bad ones are taking over the market. If you as a SS don't care about the results, and maybe don't plan on paying the notary anyway, you have more leeway to make a better deal with the title companies and take business away from the good SS.

Reply by bhb/VA on 8/20/08 7:34pm
Msg #260888

I have run into this situation quite often. I ask for an extra Fed Ex (or UPS) label and give the borrower an envelope already labelled. All they have to do is put the check in the envelope and call for pickup/or drop it off. It has not been a problem with any of my closings.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 8/20/08 7:39pm
Msg #260889

I would have abousultely have done this, however Notary Direct didn't give me a chance. They seemed upset and wanted to reschedule with someone else. Oh, well. At least I am not alone. For shame to the person who took that job if you are not CRESPA Certified.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/20/08 7:45pm
Msg #260891

I guess it depends on the definition of "handling funds"

Usually when someone is said to be handling funds, it means that the funds pass through a bank account that they have some control over. Passing a check along isn't actually "handling funds", unless VA law defines it as such - you never have any control over the funds, so all you're doing is acting as a courier. If you drop a check into a FedEx envelope and send it to someone, is FedEx handling the funds? No, they're just delivering a package...

I am not a lawyer and have no familiarity with VA law, etc, etc... but you might want to do some more research on what your state considers to be "handling funds". I've done quite a bit of work for Notary Direct, and have always found them to be honest and aboveboard... I find it hard to believe that they would intentionally try to go around state law.

Reply by bhb/VA on 8/20/08 7:54pm
Msg #260892

Re: I guess it depends on the definition of "handling funds"

"According to Virginia's Consumer Real Estate Settlement Protection Act (CRESPA), all persons conducting settlements in real property transactions must be licensed title insurance agents. Licensing requirements apply to Notary Signing Agents who conduct signings where funds are handled by the Agent. According to the Bureau, "handling funds" includes the passing of a check for settlement costs from a borrower to a Notary Signing Agent, who couriers the check and all signed documents to the title or escrow company conducting the settlement."

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/20/08 8:01pm
Msg #260894

Re: I guess it depends on the definition of "handling funds"

What are you quoting from? Without knowing the source, it's impossible to know whether the information is accurate...

Reply by jba/fl on 8/20/08 8:24pm
Msg #260896

If you have the source copy, then you should email to

Notary Direct so that they are enlightened. But, it must be a quote w/source and citations. Then they have facts that support your position and they also will be aware of the serious intent of the law.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/20/08 8:22pm
Msg #260895

I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me that everybody

has to be Crespa certified.

"UPL Op.#183 was approved by the Virginia Supreme Court on September 25, 1998, but the opinion was revised to explicitly recognize the right of lay settlement agents, as authorized under CRESPA, to close residential real estate transactions. Thereafter, the General Assembly acted again in this area by enacting the Real Estate Settlement Agent Registration Act (Va. Code §§6.1-2.30, et seq.) which became effective July 1, 1999. This new act states that if a nonlawyer is properly registered as a CRESPA settlement agent, he or she may perform escrow, closing and settlement services for any real estate located in the Commonwealth. Thus, properly registered lay settlement agents may now handle commercial as well as residential closings. Attorneys, however, are not required to meet CRESPA's requirements in order to close commercial real estate transactions."

http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/crespa/summary.htm

Reply by bhb/VA on 8/20/08 8:38pm
Msg #260899

Re: I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me that everybody

Which may be where the fine line comes in. We are not closing. We are just delivering the papers to the borrower, watching them sign them, notarizing the ones that need to be notarized, and returning the paperwork to the the "settlement agent". We are just mobile notaries. And we are also very careful to avoid "unauthorized practice of law" which, according to what I was just reading on the CRESPA site, allows us to basically say what the name of the form is that they are signing and not much else.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/20/08 8:45pm
Msg #260901

That maybe a mighty fine line.

"This new act states that if a nonlawyer is properly registered as a CRESPA settlement agent, he or she may perform escrow, closing and settlement services for any real estate located in the Commonwealth."

I would think we as "signing agents" are performing a closing and to say you are delivery people may be a bridge too far, if push comes to shove.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/20/08 8:44pm
Msg #260900

Re: I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me that everybody

"has to be Crespa certified."

I don't see that in what you cited. What we're talking about is simply transferring a check from the purchaser to the seller. No escrow, no closing, no settlement - the funds simply move from A to B. In essence, it's no different from handing an envelope to FedEx or dropping the check in a mailbox - neither guarantees delivery, but neither actually has control over the funds.

Common sense tells me that this should not be an issue. VA law may very well specifically address it, but I haven't seen a verifiable cite yet. I could be dead wrong on this and would have no problem admitting it if I am - I just want to see a cite to actual law.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/20/08 8:49pm
Msg #260902

She stated she wasn't Crespa certified which

looks to me ( a very nice, but not informed guy on VA law) she's not qualified to do the closing period, let alone courier a check. Then again I could be all wrong on this, my wife says I am about 90 percent of the time, but I continue to make the effort.

Reply by bhb/VA on 8/20/08 8:54pm
Msg #260903

You guys figure it out tonight.....

and when I get up in the morning, I'll check in to see if I am legal to take any closings today. Sounds like a good excuse to take a weekend off to me!!! Goodnight all!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/20/08 9:23pm
Msg #260908

Re: She stated she wasn't Crespa certified which

"looks to me ( a very nice, but not informed guy on VA law) she's not qualified to do the closing period, let alone courier a check. Then again I could be all wrong on this, my wife says I am about 90 percent of the time, but I continue to make the effort."

We may both be nice and not informed... but I don't have a wife to correct me, so that give me free rein...

Seriously, I would just like to see a cite to VA law that says she can't do this - all we've seen so far is opinions.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/20/08 9:36pm
Msg #260910

Re: She stated she wasn't Crespa certified which

Here's a link to the CRESPA FAQ's:

http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/inspagedocs/crespafaqs.pdf

I have researched CRESPA over the last few months and honestly I do not know if "handling" or "receiving" funds means simply putting the check in the envelope or if it means receiving money as the settlement agent, ordering payoffs, receiving wired funds, etc. I have not seen a source that particularly names Notary Signing Agents as being included in CRESPA, except on a site that conducts CRESPA training for a fee. That doesn't mean it isn't true, I just haven't found it.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/20/08 9:47pm
Msg #260915

This site here pretty much answers who has to be

Crespa qualified and speaks to BHB/VA and states what a definition of a closing is.


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+6.1-2.20

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/20/08 9:49pm
Msg #260916

Should have inckuded this site as well

http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/inspagedocs/crespafaqs.pdf

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/20/08 9:36pm
Msg #260911

Re: Notary Direct--possible solution

Tell ND (or whatever SS) that you can't 'handle funds'. However, if they'll provide a prepaid o/n env., the B can send the check to them. End of problem.

Reply by 101livescan on 8/20/08 11:05pm
Msg #260925

Notary Direct....A DO NOT WORK FOR COMPANY....they are notarious, low pay, no pay.....stay clear.....good luck.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/21/08 5:16pm
Msg #261132

I think you're confusing them with Nations Direct.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 8/21/08 9:12pm
Msg #261150

No it's Notary Direct just checked my confirmation.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/22/08 8:45pm
Msg #261349

I meant that Cheryl was confusing Notary Direct with Nations Direct as far as slow-pay, no-pay is concerned.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 8/22/08 11:13pm
Msg #261375

Sorry, my mistake.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/21/08 10:03am
Msg #260967

I am in VA as well. The whole CRESPA issue comes up every now & then. I agree that "handling of funds" really refers to the settlement agent accepting funds & disbursing funds. We don't do that, but the law doesn't clarify. I've lost a couple of signings because of the CRESPA thing. The tc's tried to tell me that there were a lot of CREPA agents in this area--not!!!! I think they just get the notaries that say yes to anything. When there are short to close issues, I advise the tc, tell them I need a separate Fedex or UPS label/envelope, and that the borrowers will need to send their funds separately. It's not a huge issue these days, because many companies arrange to have the funds sent wire transfer. To become CRESPA certified in VA you have to be affilitated with a VA title co.