Posted by John Tennant on 8/28/08 8:07pm
Msg #262431

Reference back to 262325

Hi, I want to point out how totally incorrect this system will be.

I am listed at the top of the Premium members for 20 mile range of my zip code.

I am one bar shy of filling the graph.

I have never done a signing. That's right, NEVER.

Totally qualified signing agents like, Carmi Salvador, Shannon Champlin, Ronn E. Hall, Kari Schaffner, to name a few other premium members are rated equal to me.

In addition another 15 premium members with signings are rated below me.

Harry, this is totally not right. You need to erase the ratings until you can get it right. You have no right to damage the business reputation of qualified signing agents. Jmho

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/28/08 8:11pm
Msg #262433

Wow John...thanks for bringing that forward...

This one post should carry more weight than the entire thread...the entire rating system has just been disproved (disproven?)...debunked!!

John's right...this needs to be corrected and perfected before being implemented - people's businesses and livelihoods are on the line.

JMHO

Reply by Tess on 8/28/08 8:21pm
Msg #262438

Re: Harry, please listen!

You really need to tell us why you are doing this! If you are planning a big change for our benefit, this is not the way to implement it!!

Reply by ChristineHI on 8/28/08 9:40pm
Msg #262458

Wow, I didn't even notice that rating system. They must have just done that.
I have a perfect score which makes me happy, but I am not sure how they came up with it. I log onto this site at least once a day and utilize the site a lot and do this full time, but I am not sure how fair the ratings system is.
I thought maybe signing companies were asked or something. It would be nice to know how he comes up with the ratings though...although in my case it could be beneficial.
Thanks for bringing this up..it is important.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 8/28/08 10:16pm
Msg #262468

A person that is listed just below me has 10 bars. This is

what his profile says "I am available to do notary in the southern illinois"

It is written exactly like that. Nothing more, nothing less. Wonder where he does notary? Real professional, right?

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/28/08 10:48pm
Msg #262474

It's not about who's qualified

It's not about who's better, who's more experienced, who has a better business rep, or any of that. It's just about having an active and complete profile and allowing a scheduler to discern an active signing agent from a possibly inactive or rarely active signing agent. It's just a tool, not a report card.

Reply by John Tennant on 8/28/08 11:06pm
Msg #262475

Re: It's not about who's qualified


Al, I disagree with you. I am not an active signing agent. I have monitored NR since I joined to obtain knowledge. I have purchased the SR training guide. I have purchased the Reverse Mortgage Handbook. My intent, as it has been through out my life, is to go into a business with all possible knowledge available. I am 71. In my past business, I have enjoyed working with people through out the United States so becoming a Qualified Signing Agent provides me with this opportunity on a local basis. Yes, the rating system is designed to identify who is better and who is more experienced, not who updates their profile regularily, or who logs on on a daily basis. If this rating system is left in force, then I will not renew. I would not be surprised if others also did not renew. Why should we.

Reply by Paul2_FL on 8/28/08 11:08pm
Msg #262478

Re: It's not about who's qualified

Sorry MichiganAl I have to disagree. This is what Harry wrote in his original message:

"There are approximately 15 criteria that factor into the NRCI"

Obviously it's not just a case of having an active and complete profile. (BTW a "complete profile" would be in the eyes of the beholder. What I may consider a "complete" profile you or others especially Harry may not and this could affect my NRCI score).

Reply by John Tennant on 8/28/08 11:20pm
Msg #262480

Re: It's not about who's qualified

Paul2, I disagree. It does not matter what the 15 crigeria are. My profile does not deserve all of the bars except the last one. I have no experience at the table, I am a complete "newbie' and yet Harry compares me to some very knowledgable, experienced, good Signing Agents. How can he degrade them that way. I am not in their ballpark. Will I be, you can bet on it. But not now.

Reply by Rachel_NJ on 8/28/08 11:35pm
Msg #262481

Re: It's not about who's qualified

John, hopefully your post can shed some bright lights on this. Here is a good one for you, I had recently done some corrective work for a TC. Somehow that notary messed up a simple refi so bad the whole thing had to be done again. The borrowers were furious they had to resign. The proceeds were going towards a trip they were taking. They were so mad they showed me the card the other notary left. This notary is in my area. Did my area search and viola this notary has 7 bars! That notary cannot complete a refinance but hey in NR they are golden.

Btw post #2 to boost the ol' rating.

Reply by KODI/CA on 8/28/08 11:43pm
Msg #262482

Re: It's not about who's qualified

The method/criteria for rating signing agents on NR is totally Skewed. Harry needs to wake up. Whonever is advising him does not know beans when the bag is open. The signing agents that rely on this forum and NR for advertising are getting "screwed". From everything I have read since becoming a NR premier member would indicate that Harry is a stand up guy. Right now, I question that. John Tennant

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/29/08 12:18am
Msg #262487

Also what Harry wrote in his original message

"designed to represent the fitness of a notary listing (he said the notary LISTING, not the notary)

"Completeness and profile currency are major contributors, meaning that stale profiles are heavily penalized (again, nothing to do with whether you've done one signing or 5000 signings).

"the more you support Notary Rotary, the more it will support you." Seems fair to me.

Reply by Blueink_CA on 8/29/08 12:17am
Msg #262486

Re: It's not about who's qualified

Perhaps you're right. I haven't been available for signings since Dec of last year, yet my recommendations are high. My profile states I'm not available. I just now noticed 'cause I'm thinking about getting into the biz again. Wish me luck.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/29/08 6:25am
Msg #262507

Al, et al...

I wonder if rather than the bars it would be just as effective to have an indicator of "Last Active on this Site"?

Reply by pan/nd on 8/29/08 9:33am
Msg #262533

Re: It's not about who's qualified

Al,

Perhaps you're right..and Harry is right.

But PERCEPTION is everything.

If notaries, SS, Title Companies, perceive that it is a graph on notaries abilities..then it

matters little what the REAL INTENT is.


Money talks.

If enough folks are unhappy about this...........................

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 8/29/08 12:13am
Msg #262485

Notaries vs Signing Agents in all this....

The whole rating thing is misleading and not really clear. As John said, he's never done a signing. Therefore he is a Notary Public. Fine! This board is NOT just for Signing Agents, it is for Notaries too. John is gaining information and learning by visiting this board - good for you John! I'm sure there are many other members of this site that are Notaries and don't do loan signings. There is nothing wrong with that - not everybody wants to do loan signings.

Currently in the bottom of the profile page there is a statement that says: "Has laser printer" then it says "Yes" (or I assume "No" if you don't). Perhaps there ought to be several other items there with "Yes" or "No" answers (i.e. Offers "General Notary Service", "Loan Signings", "24 Hour Service", "Reverse Mortgages", etc.)

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 12:22am
Msg #262489

I agree completely with Michigan/AL

I don't know where people got the notion that bars equal level of experience.

I would interpret many bars to mean: Comments stating who the Notary is and what they have to offer WITH CORRECT SPELLING AND GRAMMAR, contact numbers, an address, an active web page or website, info in the notary details and a last update within 6 months. After reading profiles with many bars, that is what I see.

I interpret 1 or 2 bars to mean: Nothing in the comments or one weak sentence with typos and poor grammar, nothing in the notary details, no website (a business owner in this technological age SHOULD have a web page or website), no address, no phone numbers and last update of 2006 or early 2007. I have read a few of the one bar profiles and that is exactly what I have read.

3 directories I know of create a website for you with a paid listing (under $50 per year). A template website is better than nothing, until you can create one and get hosting. If you consider yourself a professional, it behooves you to have a web page or website.

I do NOT interpret many bars to mean one Notary is more experienced than another. A scheduler will READ and discern based on the comments if that Notary is who they are looking for. There definitely are snags to work out, such as Notaries not being listed in zip codes that they previously were listed. But as far as the bars, just a tool.

Reply by Mary/VA on 8/29/08 12:38am
Msg #262491

Re: I agree completely with Michigan/AL

Notary Rotary Candidate Index (NRCI)

The Notary Rotary Candidate Index (NRCI) is a score ranging from 200 to 800 based on a complicated mathematical formula intended to identify the best fit notary for your needs. In general, the higher the number, the greater the likelihood the notary will be able to help you.

Reply by Rachel_NJ on 8/29/08 12:44am
Msg #262493

Re:I agree completely with Michigan/AL

Will a potential client know this a "just a tool' or will a TC come on here and think of it as an easy way to find the "best" notary?
Some people that have no comments on file still have 5 to 7 bars.
This just doesn't seem right. I still don't get how this would benefit the notary.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 12:53am
Msg #262495

Re: Re:I agree completely with Michigan/AL

<<<Will a potential client know this a "just a tool' or will a TC come on here and think of it as an easy way to find the "best" notary?>>>

I believe a potential client or TC will do what they have always done - click on the profile and READ what is in the profile. If a Notary has nothing in comments, what company would call them for a job? They would move on to the next Notary and READ the next profile....so on and so forth until they found a profile that fits their requirements. Nothing different than what they already do.

Reply by Rachel_NJ on 8/29/08 1:26am
Msg #262498

Re: Re:I agree completely with Michigan/AL

<<< They would move on to the next Notary and READ the next profile....so on and so forth until they found a profile that fits their requirements. Nothing different than what they already do.>>>

Right, they would do what they normally do, and these questions aren't directed to you, but why have the rating then? What is the benefit if it just a tool?

Harry had said that you were severely penalized if you had a blank profile. I was just mentioning that those blank profiles were still at 5-7 bars.

NRCI bar looks so much like the ratings bar on the other hack website that has the point system. X amount of points if you pay annually, x amount of points if you do a lowball signing you receive via text. God I hope this is not the direction NR is aiming for.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 1:58am
Msg #262500

Re: Re:I agree completely with Michigan/AL

<<<...but why have the rating then? What is the benefit if it just a tool?>>>

My guess would be that it would be a visual tool so that a company would enter a zip code and based on the number of bars, see whose profile they want to read first.

<<<Harry had said that you were severely penalized if you had a blank profile.>>>

Harry said that you were severely penalized for *stale* profiles - which mean old profiles. Hopefully, he will add *empty comment section* to the "severely penalized" list.

<<<NRCI bar looks so much like the ratings bar on the other hack website that has the point system. X amount of points if you pay annually, x amount of points if you do a lowball signing you receive via text. God I hope this is not the direction NR is aiming for.>>>

The discussion/complaint that brought on Harry's change was about outdated profiles clogging up the Notary Search section. Someone mentioned that they were told by a few companies that those companies no longer use NotRot to find Notaries because in the Notary Search, profiles were so outdated with listings where many Notaries were no longer in this business. This is not a new discussion as people have previoulsy requested that Harry purge and clean out old profiles. He mentioned that 12,000 letters were sent out and those Notaries that did not respond had their profiles deleted, yet some old ones still existed. I pointed out one and someone else pointed out another.

I said all that to say that, hopefully, the issue and implementation of this new system will remain about the outdated profiles and not about a point system, gaining bars by posting or having a premier membership or anything outside of having a current profile and filled-in.

Reply by Mary/VA on 8/29/08 1:08am
Msg #262497

Harry

No descriptive information is posted with the graph to advise that this is only a tool used to demonstrate our ability to keep current/thorough on NR. A graph is normally used to visually attract immediate attention to highs and lows based on compiled factual information. When seeking a Notary/Signing Agent, who gives a hoot about us clicking the update on our profile. Having this graph public is very misleading and should be visual only on our personal profiles. This tool being used in a marketing area on this site is very misleading.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 1:35am
Msg #262499

Forget to mention....

Two things I believe should not be part of the bar rating criteria are posting and a paid membership. The initial complaint was about inactive Notary profiles, not an inactive forum discussion. Posting should be totally optional and have no influence on the rating system. Premier membership should also not have any influence on the rating system because the point of becoming a premier member is to get a premier SPOT in one's zip codes. If this is not an issue with a Notary, they should not have a lower bar rating because if it.

The bar rating should ONLY deal with profile issues and nothing more.

Reply by Pat/IL on 8/29/08 2:08am
Msg #262501

Re: To Paraphrase

As Harry pointed out, and to paraphrase, The more you help Notary Rotary, the more Notary Rotary will help you. This is a reward system for Notary Rotary's best customers. Buy a book or a stamp? Get some bars. Posting on the site helps Notary Rotary, so Notary Rotary rewards you with bars. Updating your profile helps Notary Rotary because it helpskeep the marketing area clean for those seeking vendors.

Every one of the criteria fits the statement about mutual benefits. And what's wrong with that? Who doesn't try to promote his own business? This is a way to promote activity and sales on this site.

The ambiguous representation to the potential customer is misleading, though, except for the fact that a recently updated profile would probably indicate that the notary is still in business:

"...intended to identify the best fit notary for your needs. In general, the higher the number, the greater the likelihood the notary will be able to help you."

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 2:22am
Msg #262502

Re: To Paraphrase

<<<As Harry pointed out, and to paraphrase, The more you help Notary Rotary, the more Notary Rotary will help you. This is a reward system for Notary Rotary's best customers. Buy a book or a stamp? Get some bars. Posting on the site helps Notary Rotary, so Notary Rotary rewards you with bars. Updating your profile helps Notary Rotary because it helpskeep the marketing area clean for those seeking vendors....."...intended to identify the best fit notary for your needs. In general, the higher the number, the greater the likelihood the notary will be able to help you."
>>>

I've read where Mary/Va wrote something along these lines but haven't read where HARRY wrote or even implied this. Which of Harry's post(s) is this in? I must have missed it somehow.

<<<...except for the fact that a recently updated profile would probably indicate that the notary is still in business:>>>

Hopefully that's the focus for the change.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 3:01am
Msg #262503

Nevermind Pat/IL, I found it

<<<"...intended to identify the best fit notary for your needs. In general, the higher the number, the greater the likelihood the notary will be able to help you.">>>

I hope he changes that.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/29/08 6:29am
Msg #262508

Re: Forget to mention....

**Premier membership should also not have any influence on the rating system because the point of becoming a premier member is to get a premier SPOT in one's zip codes.**

Have to disagree with you there.

Why would anyone purchase a membership if it didn't help the ratings?

I've never been in favor of unpaid memberships with the same privileges although I see the wisdom in it. There are some areas (like mine) which have only one or few notaries listed per zip code. No need to purchase anything there. But I do. This is a very good marketing tool and I have supported it for years.

Reply by Dawn/PA on 8/29/08 10:56am
Msg #262544

Re: Forget to mention....

**Premier membership should also not have any influence on the rating system because the point of becoming a premier member is to get a premier SPOT in one's zip codes.**

I am a premier member and I am NOT listed first in my zipcode - thats a big bummer.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 12:53pm
Msg #262576

Re: Forget to mention....

<<<Have to disagree with you there....Why would anyone purchase a membership if it didn't help the ratings?>>>

A paid membership does affect a person's placement (rating) on the list, but I was referring to a paid membership - that it should not affect the bar system - if the bar system is about profile currency.

As I understand it, the issue is about outdated profiles, not about paid membership or posting. I suggested that profiles not updated every six months should be eliminated. I find that simple and nothing else is affected. However, Harry came up with this idea of the bar system and the "issue" has taken a detour into a lot of other areas it shouldn't. There's a lot he has to work out but the bar system - if it's whole purpose is simply to show completed, filled-in profiles as opposed to stale ones from 2006 - may work. If this system criteria is based on anything other than profiles, then it probably won't work.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/29/08 2:49pm
Msg #262599

Lisa, Harry posted that there are something like

15 different factors that go into the calculation of the "bar"...profiles are the heaviest...but there are many other factors, including forum participation.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/29/08 2:53pm
Msg #262600

Msg #262154 n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 3:02pm
Msg #262605

Re: Lisa, Harry posted that there are something like

<<<Lisa, Harry posted that there are something like 15 different factors that go into the calculation of the "bar"...profiles are the heaviest...but there are many other factors, including forum participation.>>>

I believe the bar rating should ONLY be about profiles - nothing else. The profiles should be filled-in, and updated within 6 months. It should be made clear to SS's and TC's that the bar rating is simply to save them time from having to wade through outdated profiles. At a glance, full bars would tell them which Notary is most likely still in the business. They would have to click on and read to see if that Notary meets their needs.

Anything other than that, to me, will not work and I hope Harry hears and listens to the voices that are telling him that it won't work.

Reply by bfd110_IN on 8/29/08 6:33am
Msg #262509

Kinda funny the non-paying members

are for this great change. I do not see alot of the non-paying members speaking against it. This gives the non paying members an opportunity to standout more so then the premier. I think the bar gives a crutch now to the title companies and SS companies cause all they will do is scan now and look for the longest bar. Makes it easier for them.

I pulled your zip code up LKT out of curiosity and noticed that there were alot of notaries in your 20 mile radius. you stood out because you had a full set of bars while the others didn't. As a title company and SS I am going to notice it first. guess I need to ask for a refund and get my bars up.

Hmmm maybe I need to copy someones profile and paste it as mine own to get the full bars.

Reply by CF on 8/29/08 8:10am
Msg #262515

I am active, have a complete profile, recently updated, and

post regularily to this forum and I DO NOT HAVE 10 BARS????????? Why? There is no possible reason that I should not have 10 bars.....I checked to see if maybe it is b/c I use the alias on the forum.....and that is not it....other people that use it have 10 bars?

THIS IS BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bean counters (schedulers) will never know the reasoning behind the bar status.....they will see a person with 8 bars that is 10 miles from a signing and a person with 10 bars that is 20 miles; and call the 10 bar person- b/c they think that they are rated for better performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please people come on.....that is what WILL happen. This was not a good idea at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This will make me loose business to new clients. I am pi$$ed off about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/29/08 12:31pm
Msg #262562

Re: Kinda funny the non-paying members

<<<I pulled your zip code up LKT out of curiosity and noticed that there were alot of notaries in your 20 mile radius. you stood out because you had a full set of bars while the others didn't.>>>

Did you READ any of the profiles to see why I have full set of bars and the others didn't? As I said in an earlier post, I read profiles with both one bar and full bars and I SEE why there's the difference.

<<<As a title company and SS I am going to notice it first.>>>

I think that's the point. I'm sure the company will click on the one bar profile to see why it's one bar. Then for the future they can go directly to the full bar profiles, READ them and not waste time clicking on outdated profiles.

Reply by bfd110_IN on 8/29/08 12:43pm
Msg #262572

Re: Kinda funny the non-paying members

" I'm sure the company will click on the one bar profile to see why it's one bar. Then for the future they can go directly to the full bar profiles, READ them and not waste time clicking on outdated profiles. "

I disagree with that statement. I am not going to waste me time reading the paragraphs and seeing what the difference is. I am going to go to the one with the most bars. As new people come onto this board you are going to see more and more duplicate profiles to get that extra one or two bars. Why should I have to compete with someone that can cut and paste.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 8/29/08 6:33pm
Msg #262648

Re: Kinda funny the non-paying members

I'm glad I'm not a paying member. I'd be outraged.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/29/08 10:18pm
Msg #262672

You're missing the point

"I don't know where people got the notion that bars equal level of experience."

Perception is reality.

Whatever notion WE have doesn't matter, and neither do the convoluted explanations that some have come up with to defend this rating system.

What matters is how the people searching for notaries will perceive these ratings.

Switch hats for a moment - imagine that YOU are the one searching for a notary. You have no idea what those bars mean, nor do you bother to click on the little link that might explain it (if you even noticed that link at all). You're in a hurry, and here's someone who has a bunch of those bars - he or she must be better than the others, right?

All the arguments, explanations and defenses being raised here in the forum are meaningless. What matters is whether the people who actually USE the notary search function understand what that rating means. I think that, at the least, there needs to be a caveat posted prior to accessing the search function which states that the ratings 1) are based ONLY on criteria related to the notary's activity on Notary Rotary, and 2) are in no way intended to reflect the notary's experience or abilities.

Don't hide it behind a link - put it out there so they can see it before they start looking.

Even then, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people looking will just focus on the bars... it's a rating, it must mean something, right?