Posted by Rick_NY on 8/25/08 6:45pm
Msg #261743

The wording, "My Commission Expires" on the notary page

It's always been my impression that since my notary stamp clearly states the expiration date of my commission (followingf the format required by New York state, that's it's OK to disregard the language "My Commission Expires" on the acknowledgement page of a mortgage, especially since most mortgages don't seem to have have that language in the first place.

NY notaries are not required to use stamps. If someone wished to hand write all their license info on any document, that's their choice. I got a call this afternoon from the mortgage recording dept of an agency I did a signing for last week (Bronx, NY Property) and the person tells me, you neglected to write your commission expiration date in that space.

Am I wrong or is someone being excessively attentive to detail here?

Reply by Rick_NY on 8/25/08 6:48pm
Msg #261744

I should add--

-- it seemed to me that the language was put there for those notaries public who did not stamp their info.

Thank you!

Reply by Julie Williams on 8/25/08 6:49pm
Msg #261745

I have found, you sometimes have to pick your battles; my state like yours, does not require a stamp or seal, but since title companies cannot possibly keep track of recording requirements in all the states and all the counties in the United States, I just fill in all the notary blanks even if the info is on my stamp. I've been doing this since I closed loans in the 80's and it's just a habit.

Reply by CF on 8/25/08 7:33pm
Msg #261751

I agree with Julie on this one....I just write in everything and use my stamp too. I figure that it is better to CYA.

Reply by Rick_NY on 8/25/08 9:54pm
Msg #261761

Hi Julie, thanks for taking the time to reply. I totally respect your credentials and your suggestion is certainly a prudent one.

I'm not "picking a battle" with anyone. I've done 2,500 signings over the last five years and never had a document rejected for recording. I've also done hundreds of closings for this agency and this is the first time anyone there has questioned this practice, making me incredulous at getting the call.

OK, I don't have a problem writing in my commission expiration date in that additional section going forward. BTW, I did a public records check and maybe one out of 10 has this language anyway (and the notary left it blank and obviously it was recorded or elle I would not have seen in in the public records!)

If I'm reading you right, in the case where a form may say "Type or Print Notary Public's Name" you might hand-write your name in that spot and then use your stamp; I'm not going to do that.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/25/08 10:25pm
Msg #261763

"If I'm reading you right, in the case where a form may say "Type or Print Notary Public's Name" you might hand-write your name in that spot and then use your stamp; I'm not going to do that."

I don't understand why you would refuse to do what your State Statutes require.

Link- http://www.dos.state.ny.us/lcns/lawbooks/notary.html

Signature of Notary Public
A notary public must sign the name under which he was appointed and no other. In addition to his signature and venue, the notary public shall print, typewrite or stamp beneath his signature in black ink, his name, the words “Notary Public State of New York,” the name of the county in which he is qualified, and the date upon which his commission expires (§137, Executive Law).

Reply by Rick_NY on 8/25/08 11:18pm
Msg #261772

And I don't understand why you refuse to actually read someone's message before replying.

I did not say I refuse to provide the information required by my state's law. All of the information you make reference to is already incorporated in my stamp.

My question is why DUPLICATE the information (the expiration date) by hand in a spot an inch or two away from where I have stamped it under my signature? Just because a form designer thought it would look nice?

Seriously.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/26/08 12:14am
Msg #261783

"If I'm reading you right, in the case where a form may say "Type or Print Notary Public's Name" you might hand-write your name in that spot and then use your stamp; I'm not going to do that."

I did read what you wrote, it's quoted above again. Generally when someone says: "I'm not going to do that," that is considered a refusal. It would stand to reason that if you aren't supposed to notarize anything with blank lines left on it, then you certainly wouldn't leave blanks lines in the notary acknowledgement or jurat, regardless of the redundancy. You also have the option of using NY approved notary worded forms if you don't like the way the "form designer" wrote the notary wording on the documents.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/25/08 11:32pm
Msg #261777

All of that info is included on our stamps

His question is whether he needs to repeat that info in order to fill in the blanks on the document.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/26/08 12:17am
Msg #261785

That's the question I answered in message#261746 n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/26/08 9:24pm
Msg #261925

Re: That's the question I answered in message#261746

I was referring to your statement:

"I don't understand why you would refuse to do what your State Statutes require."

He's doing EXACTLY what our state statutes require; why are you implying that he isn't?

And no, it doesn't "stand to reason" that you must fill in all the blanks on a notarial certificate if you've already provided the information elsewhere. It may be a good idea, but a reasonable person would not necessarily conclude that you MUST put the same information in every time it's asked for. If my stamp already has my commission expiration date, why would it "stand to reason" that I duplicate that information - just because they asked for it a second time 2 inches away from where I've already provided it? Isn't it possible that the blank is there because in some cases the info is NOT on the stamp?

Reply by Active Notary Services on 8/26/08 3:39pm
Msg #261878

In Virginia, it is now a state requirement wheither or not it is on the stamp to write it in if a spot isn't already designated for it. Several closings of late have it on some docs but not others. I think it is a silly thing if it is on your stamp too but now that it is state law, we just do it to comply.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/25/08 6:53pm
Msg #261746

You should fill in the all of the blanks on any acknowledgement you use, regardless of whether the information is included in your notary stamp. If you didn't want to, you should have attached one of your NY acknowledgements that you say doesn't ask for that information.

Reply by spnotaryplus on 8/25/08 8:41pm
Msg #261754

I agree with the point about filling in everything on the acknowledgement page. I work in the commercial mortgage field now and today I had to perform 15-20 notarizations for the company and all the areas had to be filled in. Better to over do it then no to over do it they say in my office. This way it doesn't come back to bite you.

JMHO

Reply by Rick_NY on 8/25/08 11:20pm
Msg #261773

desktopfull wrote: "If you didn't want to, you should have attached one of your NY acknowledgements that you say doesn't ask for that information."

You make it sound like I made a major policy decision ("If you didn't want to". I simply saw what I perceived as a redundancy and disregarded it.

"... [attach] one of your NY acknowledgements that you say doesn't ask for that information."
I didn't say they were "my acknowledgements" that don't ask separately for the comission expiration date. I said "most of the mortgages" I see do not have that language ("My Commission Expires:" whatsoever. By the way, I find your phrase "that you say" very argumentative.

NYC has an online system for archiving r/e documents. I just did a survey of 20 recently recorded mortgages, and 19 of them did NOT have that language on the ack. page. The one that did was ignored by the notary, and obviously it was accepted for recording, otherwise it would not have been there!

You might very well wonder why did I ask this question if I seem so set in my ways. I think I was looking for a more definitive answer than "because it's there, it's not legitimate to disregard it." The fact that a form is created a certain way doesn't make it legal.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/25/08 8:59pm
Msg #261757

Agree. Redundant, but I do it, too. n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/25/08 11:08pm
Msg #261769

I generally just fill that stuff in, even though it's redundant. Yeah, it's on my stamp, but I'd rather spend a couple of seconds filling in the blanks than spend 15 minutes arguing with some bean-counter about it. Even if you win, you lose... and you're not going to win....

Reply by Rick_NY on 8/25/08 11:26pm
Msg #261776

Thank you, Mike --

I get what you're saying. It's the first time it's ever been questioned, that's all.

Reply by thnotary_NY on 8/26/08 10:05am
Msg #261829

I'm with you on that, I fill it in also, even though it's on the stamp. Satisfying either of the "purist."

Reply by kkarate on 8/26/08 6:46am
Msg #261796

I fill in every space weather I need to or not. CYA and no complaints.

Reply by MonicaFL on 8/26/08 9:32am
Msg #261825

When I first started using the "stamp" I questioned why we should put this additional information when it is already on the seal, the SOS said that, because the stamps sometimes smear due to someone mishandling the document, the hand written information can be used if something ever came up in a court of law regarding the document and notary information. So, it is because it might smear that that information is required.

Reply by Ronda Roaring on 8/28/08 1:09pm
Msg #262283

I cover 10 counties across the southern tier and in 5 years have never had a county clerk reject a document of mine and I never fill in that blank you're talking about. Now, it the blank were on your stamp and you didn't fill it in, that would be different.