Posted by desktopfull on 8/8/08 9:25pm
Msg #259412

This is crazy.

Can someone explain how a company thinks is it saving money or time doing an esigning when you have to print over 100 pages and have them signed along with doing the ones on the website? Doing my first esigning tomorrow over 50 pages online to esign and 132 pages of printed docs to sign. AND they want 30 pages of fax backs to boot.

Reply by davidK/CA on 8/8/08 9:44pm
Msg #259415

IMHO you should be paid for two signings.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 8/8/08 9:50pm
Msg #259416

Is this an AmTrust loan?

I have one scheduled for Monday and have done a few over the past four months. The advantage to the lender is that they have immediate access to the note and TIL via the eSign feature. The TC still has to record the mortgage and riders as usual, so that part of the process is no different than before, unless the TC is set up for eRecording in the county where the property is located.

My signing breaks down like this:

20 pages of title docs (includes 5 copies of a 2-page HUD),
10 pages of broker disclosures
25 pages of lender instructions (no signatures necessary),
30 pages of lender docs to be wet-signed, and
30 pages of lender docs to be eSigned.

I print 60 pages to be wet-signed and approx. 110 pages for the borrower copy for a total of 170 pages. No fax backs are required. I even had an investment property refi last month and was not required to fax back anything.

I agree that there is no time savings for the notary. All of my AmTrust eSignings so far have been for the same TC. Maybe the TC or SS you are dealing with is the one requiring the fax backs.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/8/08 9:58pm
Msg #259417

Re: Is this an AmTrust loan?

"The advantage to the lender is that they have immediate access to the note and TIL via the eSign feature."

For what purpose? This is the one thing I don't understand about this - if it's a refi, seeing the Note and TIL immediately upon signing does them no good - there's nothing they can do with it for 3 days anyway!! I can understand the benefit if it's a purchase or investment property since no RTC applies, but in the case of rescindable loans - well, I'm sorry, I just don't see it..

I'm doing the Webinar on Tuesday...these esignings sound like as much, if not more, work as a standard paper signing. Hope I'm wrong.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 8/8/08 10:27pm
Msg #259419

Nope, you're right Linda

They are more work for the notary. You need to make sure you know how much time and effort is involved and price yourself accordingly. I really don't see how a SS can offer a fee that would make it worthwhile. Any notary who has the experience and the equipment necessary to do these closings would probably not accept what most SS would offer.

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/8/08 11:26pm
Msg #259426

You're not wrong. They're a P.I.T.A. n/m

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 8/9/08 6:40am
Msg #259445

Re: Is this an AmTrust loan?

I've been doing a lot of FHA loans they are hugh over 150-200 pages. Are the eloans FHA?

Reply by sue_pa on 8/9/08 7:02am
Msg #259451

Re: Is this an AmTrust loan?

...if it's a refi, seeing the Note and TIL immediately upon signing does them no good - there's nothing they can do with it for 3 days anyway!!...

I either read or was told that they sell the Note IMMEDIATELY on the secondary market.

If the buyer cancels, I guess they've got some fancy paperwork shuffling to do. On the AmTrust that I did, these people certainly weren't cancelling due to the loan terms - they were A paper people getting a great deal - plenty of reasons to cancel but I'm guessing these type borrowers are less likely than some of the brokered loans where we showup with mystical numbers they know nothing about.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/9/08 12:33pm
Msg #259497

Re: Is this an AmTrust loan?

**I either read or was told that they sell the Note IMMEDIATELY on the secondary market.**

I can't see that happening, no amount of fancy footwork is going to save them from fraud charges if the borrower cancels or the security for that note does not record for whatever reason.

Reply by desktopfull on 8/9/08 3:40pm
Msg #259514

Re: Is this an AmTrust loan?

Yes, it's Am Trust Bank, but with a lot more docs than you've listed. Closing went well but took almost 2 hours because of all the online reading (50 pages) with 3 statements of Identity to fill out. These take much longer than a regular signing. Wave of the future, I hope not. I don't like working longer, harder and with more expense for the same money as a regular signing.

Reply by Jack Tri on 8/9/08 12:25am
Msg #259432

It More "Crazy" if You do it for 90.00 dollars

Reply by Jack Tri on 8/9/08 12:28am
Msg #259433

And even More Crazy if the SS co. puts 350.00~400.00 on the hud for the signing.

Reply by Richard Ingram on 8/9/08 10:29am
Msg #259465

I have completed only one e-sign for AmTrust and found it to be a lot of extra work. I was able to use the borrowers computer but it took at least 30 minutes more for the borrower to read and e-sign the e-docs. From the number of docs required I might as well have done a complete wet signing.
I am sure the lenders have good reasons for e-signings but they need to adjust fees accordingly for the extra time and equipment. E-signing is a coming thing but I have not seen enough work or demand to invest $75.00 a month in an internet card. If the volume of work is available I will have to get the internet card but I can't see this additional investment paying off with the low fees offered today.

Reply by DianeCipa on 8/9/08 11:10am
Msg #259467

I'll wager they are walking both sides of the fence.

Lenders hope that e-signings are the wave of the future but until the entire secondary market and the entire recording infrastructure embrace it, they can't be sure.

We also have the untested strength of the documents in court. There isn't a reliable case record to convince mortgage lenders that borrowers won't be able to contest e-signings.

These are two really good reasons why a lender would want a signing both ways.

I would hope that your price for services would be high enough to compensate for the extra work.

As for sale of the Note, the lender will pool the mortgage into a security package and if there is a cancellation, they have time to substitute another transaction in the pool.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/9/08 11:34am
Msg #259479

And herein lies the problem

"I would hope that your price for services would be high enough to compensate for the extra work"

My quoted fee would...but they won't pay it - Example: I was called last night for an FHA refi - 75-100 miles rt plus additional 30 miles rt to drop package - edocs - pays $100 - when I quoted my fee he didn't even attempt to meet "in the middle" - conversation over...

Now, if that same FHA were to come in as an e-sign, for all I'm reading about these deals I'd add at least $50 to my quoted fee - if they're not willing to pay over $100 for full e-doc signing they're certainly not going to pay an additional $50...MHO

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/9/08 11:52am
Msg #259484

Re: And herein lies the problem

To me, these should be a minimum of $175...excluding travel & my equipment. Which, I guess I why I'll never do an e-signing. They want way too much for way too little as it now stands.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/9/08 12:44pm
Msg #259500

Re: And herein lies the problem

<<<To me, these should be a minimum of $175...excluding travel & my equipment. Which, I guess I why I'll never do an e-signing. They want way too much for way too little as it now stands.>>>

Completely agree.

Reply by DianeCipa on 8/9/08 3:08pm
Msg #259510

completely agree, too n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 8/9/08 3:33pm
Msg #259513

No way for that fee. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/9/08 5:26pm
Msg #259521

Totally agree! See my response above, message # 259519.