Posted by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/10/08 12:53am
Msg #259542

TitleNet admits shopping around after booking closing

I took a last-minute closing assignment here a while back from National TitleNet. I had done one for them the day before; they met my fee with no quibbling.

During the latest closing, it came out that the signing had been scheduled earlier with another notary, who was told that the signing had been cancelled. So, curious, I called the other notary. It seemed that she had charged a higher fee than I had, and TitleNet went shopping. Once I got over the news that somebody in my town was charging -- and getting at least initial acceptance of -- higher fees than me, I called TitleNet.

There I learned that if the revenue from the closing is less than originally anticipated, TitleNet will look around for somebody cheaper, >>>even if the closing has already been scheduled with another notary.<<< There was no acknowledgement that this was a shoddy business practice that could very likely cost the original notary money if they turn down closings during the time slot that TitleNet had booked.

I figured that if TitleNet would do that to other signing agents, they surely would do it with me, so I asked them to remove me from their database. I think the practice is inexcusably shoddy, and I don't want to be a part of doing it to someone else, nor do I wish to be victimized by it.

However, I must add that TitleNet paid both closings within 15 days, without any prodding from me and even after we got into quite a heated discussion in which I expressed the opinion that their business practices were not just shoddy, but unethical.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/10/08 7:43am
Msg #259545

Hugh, I admire your ethics just as much as I deplore the lack of same in the co's that hire us.
However, it is a fact of NSA life and has been for at least the last 8 years. These co's have absolutely no qualms about shopping & cancelling on first 'hire'; sometimes even after you've printed docs & are nearly out the door.
I had one where I'd waited 3 hours past appt. time for the docs, keeping in touch with B--said I'd call B when docs arrived. At 2 hours past appt., B called me wondering 'how much longer'. Contacted TC, who, 1/2 hr. later replied 'soon'.
1/2 hr. later or 3 hrs. after original appt., docs arrived. I start printing and call B to let them know and--get this--another notary had just that moment walked in their door carrying docs--who had never called & they thought this notary was me! Another time, a notary showed up at my door asking for the o/n docs! Called co. and was told oh, uh, er... give them to her... we cancelled with you as this was cancelled by B, but then it was back on but uh, um, we couldn't reach you so we had to get another notary. Absolutely not true--they'd been 'shopping'. She was doing this (& picking up docs from me) for a whole $10 less than I'd accepted.
You can do 100 perfect signings for a co., & get involved in some ugly situation not of your making, and, boom, you're deleted from their database. There is NO loyalty in this business anymore. I say anymore because prior to the boom, we were well-treated & paid.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/10/08 9:51am
Msg #259547

First, I must say that I totally agree with Hugh. To ‘shop’ after a signing is scheduled, and accepted, is not only unethical, but IMO a violation of an oral, and perhaps written contract (If they sent you a confirmation with accepted fees).
That said I know several SS’s, and Title Companies that don’t (at least use to not) have time to shop. Their first priority is to get it scheduled, second, to use someone good, that they have used before, and third price. Most just go by zip code first, (the way their software works) then if they see someone there that they have used before, they call. Now IF they see… say three people that they have used before, all good, and one charges less, they call that one first. It’s not their fault that someone in your area charges less. In a perfect world (and to be legal.. IMO) the notary fee should be on the HUD, and paid directly by the borrower. The “Fee“ should be of little importance to the SS, or the Title Company, or the Lender. Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. If anyone is to blame for the current situtation, it's not the SS's, the Title companies, or the lenders. It's the NNA.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/10/08 10:49am
Msg #259550

**Their first priority is to get it scheduled, second, to use someone good, that they have used before, and third price.**

Still...no excuse.

However, if I were Hugh, I personally would not have gone the "ethics" route b/c that just means that they circumvent the prospects of using an experienced notary.

I would talk straight with the other notary, develop a dialog, learn as much as I could about pricing and, as Hugh sees now, raise my price to be more in line with the going rate.

But, that's just me. Ethics do not necessarily exist in our business. We can be personally ethical, but we cannot force it on the market.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/10/08 12:40pm
Msg #259557

***We can be personally ethical, but we cannot force it on the market.***

What we can do, with any company that openly admits price-shopping after hiring a signing agent, is to see that we are not personally victimized by that company.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/10/08 1:10pm
Msg #259559

I understand what you are saying, but

probably would have done it a little differently. That's all I am saying.

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/10/08 3:45pm
Msg #259572

I would have done my job and left the rest alone. n/m

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/10/08 4:31pm
Msg #259577

Re: I would have done my job and left the rest alone.

***I would have done my job and left the rest alone.***

Part of MY job, as I construe it, is to see that I neither am taken advantage of, nor am I to be used as a tool to take adavantage of signing agents. I'm doing just fine working for companies that apparently do not engage in such tactics. But then, others are of course free to set their own standards.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/10/08 6:07pm
Msg #259589

Re: I would have done my job and left the rest alone.

**Part of MY job, as I construe it, is to see that I neither am taken advantage of, nor am I to be used as a tool to take adavantage of signing agents. **

I've always thought that to continue to work for TitleStream as you have posted you do and to post that they WOULD eventually pay when they were delaying payments to notaries for 90-120-180 was helping an abusive company which withholds payment for months to be a slippery slope along these lines.

I think this thread is evidence that what one sees as working another sees as a means of furthering notary abuse another does not.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/10/08 6:11pm
Msg #259590

should be...

**for months...along these lines**

"...for months. Also, that it was a slippery slope along these lines."

Original statement was ending in gibberish and poorly structured, but hopefully the point is made.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/10/08 6:27pm
Msg #259591

Re: I would have done my job and left the rest alone.

You are, of course, comparing apples and oranges.

If a company is slow pay, which has been Titlestream's history, a signing agent is always free not to work for that company, and another agent who does is not harming those who elect not to. On the other hand, an agent who takes an assignment from an agent who charges more is indeed harming another agent.

But you were smart enough to figure that out, weren't you, Brenda?

As you noted, you naturally are free to enable such predatory companies. I choose not to do so when confronted with the knowledge that they practice such tactics. I don't need the business that badly.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/10/08 7:14pm
Msg #259595

I think it's not comparing apples to oranges to anything.

I meant to convey that what one finds helpful to further abuse another does not.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/10/08 3:57pm
Msg #259573

Sorry Brenda....I don't get it?
NO EXCUSE! For what? Using someone that they have had prior good experience with, that may have lower fees? Or "shopping?"
I think I made it clear that IMO "shopping" is not only immoral and unethical, but also a violation of contract law.
As far as ethics...You're spot on. Sadly...To each his own!

Reply by Cari on 8/10/08 10:43pm
Msg #259610

No loyalty at all....

"You can do 100 perfect signings for a co., & get involved in some ugly situation not of your making, and, boom, you're deleted from their database. There is NO loyalty in this business anymore..." AMEN TO THAT!
***********************************************************************
Absolutely true, NO LOYALTY at all. The company that 'opened my eyes" to this realization was "The Notary Biz". At first, everthing went great, they accepted my fees, had a few regular monthly gigs, but then BOOM, calls came in fewer and fewer each month. So I asked one day, why they're weren't calling like before, (at least they had the balls to tell me) it was because my rates were to high! Don't they realize that we have bills to pay, that some of us do this work, full-time for a living! I really started to depend on this company as one of the few reliable SS, ha ha ha...jokes on me. And do you know, they keep calling me to this day; probably thinking I'll cave in to those sorry ass lower fees under $100! NO F'N WAY!

I had a few companies tell me, after quoting them my fee, "well you're the first one I called in your area, I'll get back to you..." straight up scandulous!

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/11/08 9:31am
Msg #259635

Lee is much nicer than me

Give the other notary the docs?? KMA

Reply by Nomad/OR on 8/11/08 10:26am
Msg #259642

Better not n/m

Reply by Nomad/OR on 8/11/08 10:34am
Msg #259643

Better not EVER happen around here...

"a notary showed up at my door asking for the o/n docs!"

If they ever do that someone had best have the decency to at least call first. That borders on abusive, passive aggressive at the least.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/11/08 10:50am
Msg #259646

I kind of agree with Gary's reaction to this...

my initial thought was that the "other" notary would wait on my doorstep sucking their thumb until I contacted the company and got written confirmation and authority to turn the package over to "so-and-so"....then the notary better have ID or I'm not letting it go....

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/11/08 11:33am
Msg #259655

They'd wait for me longer than that.

"I'm sorry, but printing edocs is a service I provide for my notary clients. I don't print docs for other notaries. Would you like me to destroy them or FedEx them to you blank?"

Cause you know that a chicken shit service like that isn't going to pay you promptly for printing.

Now if I knew and liked the other notary, maybe... maybe.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/11/08 12:49pm
Msg #259674

Exactly what I did! But co. claimed they had called to

cancel & um, er, sent an e-mail & er, um. well, called again & uh, duh.... lied like crazy. At which point---stick a fork in me--I'm done---who needs a co. like that! Let the other poor notary deal with 'em. Kinda felt sorry for her, too, as they lied to her & told her I'd bailed. Which is how I found out 'she was cheaper'. After I handed over the docs, I got a 'cancellation' e-mail. Such liars!