Posted by GA/Atty on 8/25/08 9:46pm
Msg #261759

Where do you notarize your docs? At the closing table, or do

you take the docs with you and notarize them later before you send them back?

Someone at a title company today expressed surprise that I did not have my notary stamp with me at the closing table; she said she had never heard of a notary not bringing it. It had never really occured to me to notarize them right there in front of the borrower as they signed.

I almost always take docs back to my office and notarize them there - just curious if that is what most of you do?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/25/08 9:50pm
Msg #261760

I notarize on the spot. n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 8/25/08 10:04pm
Msg #261762

If you don't notarize at the table and something happens to you on the way back to your office, say an accident, those docs can't be sent back to the title co. by someone else, because you are unable to complete the signing by notarizing. Why should the borrower have to accept the risk that you'll be able to complete the signing later? Plus their lock in rate could expire and their interest rate could go up in the time it would take to resign the docs after the TC discovers you didn't do your job at the table. I hope you carry enough E&O insurance, it sounds like you definitely need to with the risks that you take.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/25/08 10:53pm
Msg #261766

Always at the table

I'm surprised at the question; the signer has to appear before you in order for you to notarize their signature, so why are you not doing your part then? It may be legally permissible in some states, but as a practical matter I think it's a really bad idea.

Reply by GA/Atty on 8/25/08 11:07pm
Msg #261768

I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced, I

almost never did any notarizations outside of my office. Of course, I had never done any "mobile closings" either - they were always done in my office and 99% of the time I was acting as settlement agent as well.

The general practice (on a sale, for example) was (and still is) that the parties would sign all the docs and then I would disburse the checks to the agents and the sellers and then they would leave. Then, in conjunction with preparing the package for return to the lender, I would go through and notarize each signature.

Every now and then I have attended a closing at another attorney's office (usually when one of my clients is the seller and they want their own representation), and I have never seen it done differently. So as I said I guess it just never occurred to me to do it any other way.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/25/08 11:26pm
Msg #261775

Re: I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced, I

I can see your point and understand that it's a convenience for you, but I've never seen it done any other way here. I personally wouldn't do it any other way, because I can't guarantee that I'll make it back to my office...

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/25/08 11:56pm
Msg #261782

Re: I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced, I

"I can see your point and understand that it's a convenience for you"

How is it convenient to have to go through the package again after the signing is complete? Seems like a big waste of time to me.

I had one a few weeks ago where the opposite happened. The notary who was supposed to do the signing got into a car accident so I picked up the docs from her and did it. When I got to the signing I discovered that she had already gone through the package and stamped everything. Didn't fill anything else out, just applied the stamp.

I just don't understand that mentality at all. It's not like it's difficult to do the notarizations as you're going through the signing. I start working my way through the package completing stuff as they're reviewing the settlement statement, usually by the time we're 1/3 of the way through the signing, or even less, I've got all the notarization sections complete. And it doesn't cost me any additional time to do it, nor does it slow down the signing at all.

One of the best ways to counterbalance the reduced fees we're seeing these days is to be more efficient at our jobs. I probably make more on a $100 signing than a lot of people make on a $150 signing because I don't waste time doing things like reviewing the package in advance, or notarizing everything after the signing is complete, or waiting in line at Fed Ex to get a receipt for the items that I dropped off, or any number of other things I see people talk about on this board that are nothing but overexcessive timewasters that they justify as customer service. It's quite possible to provide excellent service without doing all that, and it's a much smarter way to run a business. And these days, it's absolutely vital to be cost efficient.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 8/26/08 12:17am
Msg #261784

I agree-- Double work

The only thing I do in advance is get a few of the docs in the order I want to present them. Notarize on the spot then run through them real quick to ensure I did not miss anything. Quick and easy.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/26/08 12:19am
Msg #261786

Re: I agree-- Double work --- Ditto

I notarize at the table as I go through each document with the borrower. That way I know that the package is complete before I leave the table.

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/26/08 2:33am
Msg #261787

Re: I agree-- Double work --- Ditto

Yep, which means you can review the package at the table and drop it off directly after the closing instead of going back home, filling in what you didn't do at the table, and then having to get back in your car to get to a drop box. Meanwhile, you end up with idle time at a closing when you could have been productive.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/26/08 3:29am
Msg #261788

Re: I agree-- Double work --- Ditto

I agree, as well. Plus I think it's a good habit to get into. Can't count how many times where there has been a realtor or loan officer present who was planning to take the documents with them at the end of the signing. Not only do I notarize at the table, I double check at the table.

About the only thing I do in advance is check to make sure that there are enough copies of RTC pages, if applicable, and give a quick scan to see if the property is in a trust, and if there are any other Deeds or special signature requirements (e.g. NOBS, etc.)

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/26/08 6:23pm
Msg #261899

Re: I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced, I

"How is it convenient to have to go through the package again after the signing is complete? Seems like a big waste of time to me."

All I'm saying is that I understand his point - not that I agree with it. In his case, it's a convenience (or else why would he do it that way?).

I personally want to handle the paper as few times as necessary. When I get the docs, I quickly run through them to make sure all the important stuff is there, and then put them in the presentation order I prefer to use (this is only for HUD-1, TIL, RTC, note and mortgage - everything else is left in whatever order I received it). At the signing, I visually verify that each page is signed, dated and/or initialed properly as they hand it back to me - then I put it face down in the pile and don't bother to look at it again. Same thing with the notarizations - do it, review it, and put it away. If you do it the same way every time, you don't miss anything and you can save time.

Reply by NCLisa on 8/26/08 8:44am
Msg #261809

Re: I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced, I

When I was an EO in CA, we never notarized docs at the table. We always brought them back to our desk. When I did mobile closings out there, I notarized at the table, it took less time.

Working in a law office, whoever did the closing notarized where and when they wanted.

As a NSA, if I have a ton of closings close together, or if the borrower has no space, I'll notarize at my office. If I'm not rushed, I notarize at the table. My business partner, never notarizes at the table, does it all at the office as she wants to get through the actual closing faster. I find that notarizing at the table just saves me more time in the long run.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/26/08 12:58pm
Msg #261852

Re: I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced

*When I was an EO in CA, we never notarized docs at the table. We always brought them back to our desk*

I've seen it both ways in TCs...at my own closing I think the closer too my driver's license and made a copy of it and then passed documents; then did the notarization post closing.

Reply by NCLisa on 8/26/08 4:05pm
Msg #261885

Re: I guess it's because, for the first 10 years I practiced

In the East Bay, we got the $10 per sig on top of our salary as an additional check every month. So we'd notarize at out desk to be sure we counted every single sig at most TC's! (One I worked for capped the notary fee at $60) per closing. I was always guaranteed at least an additional $1500 a month above my salary.

Reply by Julie/MI on 8/26/08 9:24am
Msg #261822

I did it your way GA/atty

When one works as a settlement agent, the notarization part is just a necessary requirement to close the loan.

When I closed as an employee of a title company, I didn't sign until after. The notary part is really not a big deal to title people but it's a big deal to those that are notaries to do mobile closings.

At the height of sometimes 10+ closings a day, there is no way I could "notarize" at the table, time is $$$ after all.

The only time I do cross the i's and dot the t's is for a purchase or when I did the Household/beneficials or local title companies when the docs remained at the office.

I do always sign, in the event I loose my life on the way back. DH could always stamp and fill in the acknowledgements (yes, many of you will fall off your notary thrones at that one and that's okay by me )

Reply by Ronda Roaring on 8/28/08 1:03pm
Msg #262280

Re: Always at the table

Mike, you're absolutely right. I talked to one of the attorneys at the SoS's office a year or so ago about this matter. They said that (in NYS) although there is no law requiring a notary to notarize the docs in front of the borrower, conducting the notarization later, away from the borrower, violates the whole purpose of the notarization act. And what proof does the borrower have that you actually notarized the document. If notaries are going to do that, they could have their kids sign and stamp the docs. Who would know? If, by some chance, you ever wound up in court with the borrower and the borrower said he/she never saw you notarize the docs, you'd be in big trouble.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/26/08 6:57am
Msg #261798

I have observed that lawyers like to do the

notarizations post the signing.

Reply by LynnNC on 8/26/08 11:38am
Msg #261843

Re: I have observed that lawyers like to do the

And, the notary is not in the room when the client signs, nor does the notary see their ID.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/26/08 12:29pm
Msg #261847

Re: I have observed that lawyers like to do the --- Huh??

**And, the notary is not in the room when the client signs, nor does the notary see their ID.**

And they are conducting a notairzation? How can that be if they are notarizing a signature? How are they ID'ing the signer? Maybe I'm missing something here - no?

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/26/08 12:43pm
Msg #261850

Just to clear up my part...

The lawyers I speak of ARE notaries.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/26/08 7:00am
Msg #261799

I always complete at the table.... n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/26/08 7:10am
Msg #261800

Re: I always complete at the table....

I know at least on local TC that does it after the closing. The last time I refinanced, I actually asked the closer if she was a notary.

Reply by WDMD on 8/26/08 7:19am
Msg #261801

Re: I always complete at the table....

I closed in a title office once for a closer who worked there. When I asked her to sign my journal she made the comment "I do not fool with keeping a journal". I asked her how she knew what she had notarized and how would she even be able to prove she ID'd the signers. She said she was not concerned with it, no one had ever questioned her before about it.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 8/26/08 8:41am
Msg #261806

If I get the docs soon enough, I'll prefill some info

such as 'State of_______ County of_____' etc.. However, I do all final notarizations at the table. The borrowers really seem to appreciate that I emboss the docs in front of them. It seems to relieve a certain amount of anxiety for them. - makes the whole affair more legitimate for them I suppose.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/26/08 9:00am
Msg #261815

This has been a "hot" topic on some of the forums, and the subject of some heated debate.
I think it's all about how we handle the flow of the work. I do not notarize at the table.
At the closing, I focus on that, using my script as I go through the docs, and completing the signing by the borrowers. I review all the packages at home (or Fedex Kinko's, whatever) complete my notary work, and drop the package. It is double work in a sense, but I want to be sure I'm not hurried & smudge the stamp or something. I'm not paranoid about now making it back from the signing. I'm sure it might be easier to notarize at the table, but I haven't found that worked well for me. It is not illegal to do this. The borrower has to sign in front of me, but I'm not required to sign in front of them. Of course, I only do this on loan packages.

Reply by CF on 8/26/08 9:23am
Msg #261820

At the table

if I can’t get to 1 or 2 notarizations- then I do them after the signing. I keep the notarized docs in a pile in front of the doc package so I can scan them 1 more time for accuracy. It takes about 1 minute to scan the package in front of the borrowers for signatures, dates, and initials. Although, sometimes this occurs all at the table- time permitting. Just depends- how close my next appointment is.

I agree with Calinotary- we all need to streamline the process and do what is most time effective during this downturn. I am always figuring my profitability on each job and down the minute how much time it took me to complete everything!!!!!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 8/26/08 1:15pm
Msg #261856

Always at the closing table!

The reasons are two-fold: 1) When I double check the documents there immediately after the signing, I may catch something. B) My wife has a standing request (I don't give her orders) that if I'm in an accident and am injured (or worse), she is to look for documents and get them sent out (she always knows when I'm on a signing). That way everything is complete and the loan can fund.

I would never consider going to a signing without my complete kit: Journal, embossing seal, stamp with my name and date of commission expiration, an assortment of pens, magnifying glass with flashlight, binder clips, pads of paper, some blank legal-size paper, blank acks and jurats, a printout of the CT alternative to the standard oath, rescission calendar, business cards, and misc. forms. Everything fits nicely into a standard briefcase, with room to spare. In fact, it is a very rare occurance for me to leave home without my kit in the car, just in case I get a general notarization call while I'm on the road.

Reply by MelissaCT on 8/27/08 1:21pm
Msg #262024

Re: Always at the closing table!

I also notarize at the table. As the signing goes along, I take the signed documents and place them face down in a pile - notarized documents go at a 90 degree angle. Toward the end of the package, I'll flip over & begin my QC check and start notarizing the acknowledgments after asking whether all was signed of free will. I know that formally asking the question may be considered unnecessary, but I go by the book and err on the side of caution when in doubt. At the end, I'll give an oath to cover the jurat documents that have been signed. This is what works for me. I think the most important thing is to have a system/habit that is utilized every time without fail and errors will be caught/not made. It's less important how the work is completed than that they are consistently completed.