Posted by Christina Byrd on 12/19/08 10:22am
Msg #272384

Borrower signed all docs and left w/docs

I had a borrower sign all his docs and I notarized them and at the very last moment he decided he wanted more money back, we could not get hold of the LO and called the title company who tried to explain but the borrower just got angry and left picking up all the signed docs. He was a lot bigger than me and angry so I let him leave. Now we have a resign and I and I told him to bring the docs back to me they belong to me and he said they belong to him because his signature is on all the docs. So who do the docs belong to and is this something that has legal ramifications??

Reply by SReis on 12/19/08 10:27am
Msg #272385

IMO, if he signed them he has the right to keep them if he doesn't want to give them back. It ensures that any docs that he signed are not incorrectly turned over for processing. While we are never supposed to leave docs w/client w/a no sign, I think this circumstance is different. There really shouldn't be any legal ramifications re: whether or not he keeps the docs because they are no good anyway, since he has cancelled the signing & already scheduled a re-sign.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/19/08 10:28am
Msg #272386

My understanding is "they belong to the Lender". But, I wouldn't wrestle anyone to gain possession. I would let the hiring entity know what happened immediately and let them totally handle the situation. It's their fight, not yours.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/19/08 10:53am
Msg #272394

If borrower was that upset and I felt my safety was threatened if I insisted upon taking the docs with me, I would let the guy have them too. We don't get hazard pay. Agree with Lee/AR about letting the hiring entity know immediately what happened. I'm not sure I would accept the re-sign appt.

Reply by notaryinmo on 12/19/08 11:33am
Msg #272402

My thoughts exactly! My husband gets upset with me going out in the evening to do a signing by myself - even if he has the phone # and address where I'm supposed to be. If I were ever feel threatened with any client, I would go out to my car or ask to use the restroom and call the ss to let someone know what's going on.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/19/08 2:26pm
Msg #272431

I'm confused (as usual)

if you felt threatened, why in the world would you phone someone in another location to let them know. Why wouldn't you be out the door, driving away?

Reply by jba/fl on 12/19/08 2:46pm
Msg #272438

or call someone who can help, like 911, etc? n/m

Reply by notaryinmo on 12/19/08 3:49pm
Msg #272446

Re: I'm confused (as usual)

Sometimes people need to be left alone for a minute or two to re-compose themselves. If I still felt threatened, I would leave immediately. And on the way out, call the ss agency to let them know what happened. Then, I would call my husband to alert him - since he has the phone # and address I was at, he could take whatever action needed to be taken with his 4 brothers on my behalf, if it came down to it It's helpful to be related to law enforcement...lol

Reply by sue_pa on 12/19/08 8:11pm
Msg #272481

Still confused

how it could EVER enter into anyone's mind that getting loan documents signed would require the assistance of a man and his 4 brothers - law enforcement or not.

I have done this job A LONG time and I have closed A LOT of loans. I have NEVER been threatened nor felt threatened. Of course there is possibly that there is that one in a million wacko out there getting a loan but really, what is the chance of someone 'threatening' you that you can't 'escape' without bodily harm?

I would think you should be more concerned if you were a bank teller or a convenience store/gas station clerk - not a notary.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/19/08 2:26pm
Msg #272432

<<<.....the borrower just got angry and left picking up all the signed docs. He was a lot bigger than me and angry so I let him leave.>>>

Never, EVER risk your safety over any paperwork. Don't argue with an angry client or try and convince them they can't have the paperwork. Pack up your stuff, leave and like Lee stated, call the entity and let them know what's going on.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/19/08 4:32pm
Msg #272454

I've always been told never to leave any unsigned docs with the borrowers if they don't sign.
I understand that he wasn't going to let those signed docs leave his possession. Safety is always first, last & always. I'm assuming that the borrower wasn't angry with you, personally.
I am a single woman with no one to cover my back. I have only encountered one or two situations where I was a bit uncomfortable. If I ever felt unsafe I would excuse myself, say I needed to make a call to the tc, go to my car, etc. We're never required to be at risk, and always have the option of leaving the signing.

Reply by nolanotary on 12/19/08 4:33pm
Msg #272455

I do not sign or notarize anything until after I leave...that way, if they change their mind midstream, my name is no where on the documents tying me to an incomplete loan package.

Reply by Notary/Guy on 12/19/08 6:56pm
Msg #272474

They Are Not the Borrower docs.I would never give the docs to the borrower plus he would never do that with me because i dont stamp them till i get home.

Reply by Dave_CA on 12/20/08 10:48am
Msg #272517

As you show as being in CA you should know that you need to
"stamp" them at the signing.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 12/20/08 11:59am
Msg #272519

"because i dont stamp them till i get home."

That is extremely bad practice!
What happens if you get in an accident on the way home and suffer injuries where you are unable to complete the notarizations? - Company has to send someone else out to redo, borrower loses lock in rate and you get sued! You should always compete the notarization in front of the signers.

I had one notary who did this! Was the first time I had hired her so she had to fax me over the notarized pages before shipping the docs back to title. This was on a Friday!
She got home and realized her stamp had fallen out of her purse and was at the borrowers. The borrowers had left for a trip right after the signing so the notary couldn't go right back out to retrieve her stamp. Luckily the borrowers arrived home late Sunday night so the notary went back out to retrieve her stamp and was able to get the docs in Fedex on Monday morning. I have not used that notary since that incident. Florida law requires that the notarization be completed in the signer's presence.