Posted by R Solis on 12/10/08 3:58pm
Msg #271611

Obtaining certified copies of birth certificates...

Hi,

I'm in the middle of obtaining certified copies of birth certificates for my kids. The application requires the sworn statement to be notarized. Can I notarize if either myself or my spouse is signing the application? Think I am okay, just want to be certain! Please advise. I am in California.

Thank you in advance.

Ramon

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/10/08 4:07pm
Msg #271613

You can never notarize for yourself.

Some states allow for notarizing the spouse's signature, but I know in my state of VA it's not allowed.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/10/08 4:13pm
Msg #271614

(sigh) Notary Public 101: Never notarize your own or ...

... your spouse's signature.

How on Earth did you ever get a Notary Public Commission?r

Reply by R Solis on 12/10/08 4:54pm
Msg #271619

Re: (sigh) Notary Public 101: Never notarize your own or ...

Ernest CT,
Pls apologize for your rude comment... Who died and made you the genious? Like you are so smart... Why do you take joy in trying to make people feel stupid? I have never understood people like you...

Reply by R Solis on 12/10/08 4:55pm
Msg #271620

Re: (sigh) Notary Public 101: Never notarize your own or ...

Anyway, For the sake of discussion how/why is this considered a conflict of interest? I still believe my question has merit.
The following is right out of the handbook:
CONFLICT OF INTEREST
A notary public is not prohibited from notarizing for relatives or others, unless doing so
would provide a direct fi nancial or benefi cial interest to the notary public. With California’s
community property law, care should be exercised if notarizing for a spouse or a domestic
partner.
A notary public would have a direct fi nancial or benefi cial interest to a transaction in the
following situations (Government Code section 8224):
• If a notary public is named, individually, as a principal to a fi nancial transaction.
• If a notary public is named, individually, as any of the following to a real property
transaction: benefi ciary, grantor, grantee, mortgagor, mortgagee, trustor, trustee, vendor,
vendee, lessor, or lessee.
A notary public does not have a direct fi nancial or benefi cial interest in a transaction if a
notary public is acting in the capacity of an agent, employee, insurer, attorney, escrow, or lender
for a person having a direct fi nancial or benefi cial interest in the transaction.
If in doubt as to whether or not to notarize, the notary public should seek the advice of an
attorney.

Reply by Gary_CA on 12/10/08 9:23pm
Msg #271652

I don't know why...

if I were a little smarter I'd follow the old poker rule, "never educate the fish" but here goes... in that same handbook, a little further down in the actual civil code...

§ 8224.1. Writings, depositions or affidavits of notary public; prohibitions against proof
or taking by that notary public
A notary public shall not take the acknowledgment or proof of instruments of writing executed
by the notary public nor shall depositions or affidavits of the notary public be taken by the
notary public.


So... here again, Notary 101 If you sign it don't stamp it.

As for your wife... notice the warning you yourself quoted. Community property. Anything that's good for her is good for you. That application MAY be an exception, but why risk it.

Write this down.

DO NOT NOTARIZE THINGS FOR FAMILY MEMBERS.

Period. End of story.

They don't want to pay you anyway.

There's the water... drink if you'd like.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/10/08 5:09pm
Msg #271624

It would be funny if it weren't patheticly juvenile. n/m

Reply by R Solis on 12/10/08 5:16pm
Msg #271626

Re: It would be funny if it weren't patheticly juvenile.

Be careful Ernest... you are in violation of Notary Talk Forum Rules and Guidelines, II-4.

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/10/08 8:19pm
Msg #271649

This is BASIC notary 101 stuff....

and I'm sure was covered in your CA notary class...or wait a minute...did you take one of those classes that JUST teaches you to pass the test and nothing else? Surely, even that outfit would teach you the basics. How did you pass the test and get your commission?

Don't blame Ernest for making you look stupid. You did that on your own. Sheesh!

Reply by rengel/CA on 12/10/08 5:12pm
Msg #271625

I love the smell of Troll in the afternoon...... n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/10/08 6:00pm
Msg #271628

<<<Can I notarize if either myself or my spouse is signing the application? Think I am okay, just want to be certain! Please advise. I am in California. >>>

You cannot notarize your own signature. If YOU sign the application, go and have it notarized at the UPS Store or FedEx/Kinkos or the AAA office if you are an auto club member. CA Notaries *can* notarize for their spouse and other family but, it is just best NOT to notarize for family as they have an obvious bias. So even if your husband signs it, send HIM to the UPS Store or FedEx/Kinkos or the AAA office if he's an auto club member. You will save yourself a lot of headaches by just having a different Notary do the notarizing.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/10/08 7:12pm
Msg #271634

is everyone paranoid w/wacko families except me?

unless specifically prohibited by your state, have your husband sign it and you notarize it. Good grief, what kind of family do you people have where a spouse can't give permission for the other to get the kids birth records?

Gasp, over the t-giving holidays I notarized my sister's notary renewal application ... strike me down. Gasp, gasp ... I didn't make her show me id and I didn't use credible witnesses.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/10/08 8:00pm
Msg #271644

Re: is everyone paranoid ... Easy Sue....

You're gonna pop a vessel there!!...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/10/08 8:04pm
Msg #271647

Well, true. In this case, though...

those applications have him listed as the father, so he can't notarize a document that he's named in.

Unless of course he's not really the babydaddy.... then there's no problem.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/10/08 8:03pm
Msg #271646

Ramon, you can't do it, and here's why....

Simply put, if you are the one listed under "Name of Father" in the application, then you cannot notarize the certificate of identity. You can't notarize a document if your name is in it. While getting a copy of a birth certificate is not any big financial gain, the county clerk is serious about this stuff. Chances are they'd reject the application.

Your best bet is to just eat the $10 and go to the UPS store. Either that, or call another notary friend who owes you a favor. I would never charge another notary for something like that if I knew him/her and it was convenient to meet. I consider it to be building goodwill, and that way if I ever needed the same thing I'd would hope I'd able to find someone willing to "repay" the favor.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/10/08 8:16pm
Msg #271648

Re: Ramon, you can't do it, and here's why....

That's exactly why it's best to avoid notarizing the signatures of spouses and family - *****if I make it a rule to send them to another Notary, I NEVER, EVER, EVER have to wonder, remember, ponder, guess, contemplate, theorize, or think twice about whether or not my name was in the doc, if I have a beneficial or financial interest in the doc, if there are inheritance issue, etc., etc., and so forth.

A truly disinterested, neutral third party has no blood tie to me. JMHO.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 12/10/08 8:33pm
Msg #271651

Re: Ramon, you can't do it, and here's why....

" I would never charge another notary for something like that if I knew him/her and it was convenient to meet"

I have a friend in the area who is a notary. Whenever I or my family need a notary I call her, and whenever she or her family needs a notary she calls me. Always done as a courtesy, no payment.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/11/08 9:47am
Msg #271700

Same here, Sylvia~make friends with local notary

There is another notary here in my little town, and we reciprocate notary services with each other. Anything she or her husband needs notarized, I take care of that for her, and vice versa, as a professional courtesy. Works well for us.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/10/08 10:41pm
Msg #271660

Huh?

"Simply put, if you are the one listed under "Name of Father" in the application, then you cannot notarize the certificate of identity. You can't notarize a document if your name is in it."

He's not attesting to the content of the document, he's attesting to the ID of the person signing the document. As long as he doesn't sign it and has no beneficial interest in the outcome, where's the foul, even under CA law?

Reply by John_NorCal on 12/10/08 11:03pm
Msg #271663

Re: Huh?

The child is a minor and could have an estate i.e. a child actor for instance in which case his/her parents would presumably have an interest in the childs estate should the child die. Given that, the father i.e. Ramon, would have an interest in the childs estate along with his wife and could not notarize the signature of his wife.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/10/08 11:42pm
Msg #271664

Re: Huh?

Exactly. A Birth Certificate can be used for all kinds of things... and legally, Ramon is entitled to a copy being as he's the father. But that's exactly WHY he shouldn't notarize the signature of anyone on the application... because he HIMSELF is named in the application as the father.

There's no argument that he can notarize his wife's signature. We know that he can do that... provided that he doesn't have an interest in the document itself, which he does.. whether he's the one signing it or not, he's still named in the document itself, therefore he is not impartial.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/11/08 11:28pm
Msg #271777

Re: Huh?

The child COULD have an estate, but that's assuming facts not in evidence. I think it all depends on the situation - this could be as simple as needing to get the child registered in school.

It's not a great idea to notarize for family, but there ARE situations where it's perfectly logical, ethical, and legal to do so. The notary's duty is to not notarize a document which provides him/her with a beneficial interest - a blanket statement that you can't ever notarize if your name appears in the document is just wrong, because you are not attesting to the contents of the document and the presence of your name in the document doesn't necessarily give you a beneficial interest. It's up to the notary to figure this out, and unless state law says you CAN'T do it, there are no hard and fast rules.

All that being said, I think it's a bad idea (but not necessarily illegal).

Reply by R Solis on 12/11/08 9:46am
Msg #271699

Very good, my question raised some debate. All things considered, I am satisfied with this thread. Thank you for your time, consideration and advice!

Reply by Gary_CA on 12/11/08 9:54am
Msg #271701

What debate you moron?

Really... you're satisfied with yourself at the end like you were at the beginning.

Did anybody think it's a good idea to notarize you own or your wife's signature???? Anybody whose been a notary for more than a week?

You asked a silly question and at the end of the day you're still silly.

Reply by R Solis on 12/11/08 12:23pm
Msg #271724

Re: What debate you moron?

Now, that was totally uncalled for... You sir, are in violation of Notary Talk Forum Rules and Guidelines II-4... "Failure to adhere to these Rules & Guidelines may result in suspension of your posting privilege, your Notary Rotary account, and, in extreme cases, may result in legal action against you."

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/11/08 12:27pm
Msg #271727

Yep. Definitely a MoMo! n/m

Reply by Gary_CA on 12/12/08 12:58pm
Msg #271815

Better be careful of II-4 Beca... is "MoMo" exempt???? n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/11/08 12:57pm
Msg #271736

The meat of the discussion.....

...really was whether it's wise to notarize the signature of one's spouse, or for that matter ANY family. Notarizing one's own signature is a guaranteed no-no, so there's no debate on that issue. CA SOS law does allow for a Notary to notarize signatures for spouse and family....but is that wise to do so, even though the law allows for it? Answer: NO !!! That's the debate.

Marian's post showed why Ramon CAN'T, I mentioned something about inheritance issues and John's post also showed why Ramon can't and put the inheritance issue in a realistic scenario. CA Notaries run too high of a risk of notarizing for a spouse or family member - for something they believe to be so simple - only to have the transaction audited and an attorney interprets the language to show that Notary has a financial interest or benefit in the doc. OR....the Notary is notarizing the signature of cousing Herbert and on 10 page of said document, the Notary's name is buried in 9 point font in the middle of page 6. Cousin Herbet forgot to mention this and Notary doesn't catch it when reviewing the doc.

CA Notaries: TOO MUCH RISK.....DO NOT NOTARIZE FOR YOUR SPOUSE OR OTHER FAMILY.

If you have a AAA card, take advantage of their notary services. Ask family if they have a AAA card and send them there. Cost per signature for most personal transactions:

Classic membership.........$7
Plus membership............ $4
Premier membership.......FREE (up to 10 per day)
Non-members.................$10
Business related.............$10

Visit their website www.aaa.com for further details.