Posted by Robin/CA on 12/27/08 1:36pm
Msg #272882

Title held as...

a married man as his sole and separate property. Is the wife required to sign any of the docs here in CA?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/27/08 1:56pm
Msg #272883

Title should be giving you those instructions...

I'd call them before signing.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/27/08 2:02pm
Msg #272885

agree

why in the world would you or the guy down below worried about GA procedures be concerned about legal matters ... where do you draw the line.... do you discuss all the vesting options with your borrowers ... do you acertain there is clear title ... do you follow up to be sure no interceding liens were filed? Your job is to get paperwork signed. If you see something that doesn't look correct, certainly ask your client but to have your mind go anywhere except what's in front of you will only get you in trouble some day.

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/27/08 4:21pm
Msg #272897

Re: agree

Robin's question was specific to getting the paperwork signed by the appropriate parties. And the advice given in reply, to contact the hiring entity, seems reasonable enough. What gives with the rant, Sue?

Reply by sue_pa on 12/29/08 7:54am
Msg #272986

Re: agree

I guess my rant is one of my pet peeves. Why in the world would she ask legal questions of people on a message board rather than go to her client. Even if we see something 99% of the time, a general answer to specific legal actions is not appropriate - we need specific instructions from the one who knows the answer.

I see people list "legals" to be signed by nonborrowing spouses. Included in that list is the TIL. I've done 2 loans products throughout the years (still do one of them) where the spouse isn't required to sign it. There is no answer to what someone should sign other than where their name is typed below the line. If someone thinks something else should be done, their client has the actual answer, not notaries around the country telling what they normally see and do.

Reply by Robin/CA on 12/28/08 6:14pm
Msg #272967

Re: Title should be giving you those instructions...

Thanks for all the info, the signing was completed, TC said to sign w/o wifes signature.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/27/08 7:29pm
Msg #272912

Robin, I had a signing like that awhile back. The wife didn't sign anything. However, as each loan is different, check with the TC to be sure.

Reply by Calnotary on 12/27/08 7:41pm
Msg #272916

Most of the time when I question title about that, they say that the spouse have signed an Interspousal GD previously. So it doesn't hurt to ask.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/28/08 4:02am
Msg #272940

Agreeing with sue_pa! She wasn't ranting.

It is never, ever your job to figure out whether a non-owner or non-obligated spouse has to sign. Your job in such cases is to contact the Loan Officer and pass along as much information as you have. Always follow instructions, unless to do so would violate your state's law.

As harsh as it sounds, do not think. Do not give legal advice unless you are admitted to the state bar. Make the phone call. Document clearly the name of the person who gave you instructions, the date, the time, and the specific instructions. Do as you are told. Send a copy of the documentation with the signed package and keep the original.

Reply by CF on 12/28/08 7:51am
Msg #272943

Additionally, I might add

do you like working for free or next to nothing? By opening up this can of worms.....your profitability will go down the tubes!!!! Have you ever been in the middle of a vesting problem? You will spend over 2 hour's on the phone and maybe more. Is that your job? NO- it is the job of the Title Company to work with thier client the Lender. The Lender is one that supplies this information to the TC...the TC does not make the call on it. When they get the docs backs....and low and behold they discover that the vesting is WRONG- they will get it fixed...hopefully they will call you back up and you will get a 2nd fee on top of the 1st one that you did your job on.

Your nice little signing just turned into a nightmare.....these are the ones that you hear about people being at the table for 4 hours....and still the docs did not get signed. Just do your job....you are not there to make sure the paperwork is right- you are there to get it signed and notarized right- that is it!!!! It is pretty simple...when you do not make it hard!!!!

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/29/08 11:19am
Msg #273007

I disagree, CF & Ernest

While the notary is in no position to make decisions as to who signs what, I believe a thinking notary is always preferable to one who suppresses doubts and, therby, fails to obtain all necessary signatures. While I do agree that the title company should always provide specific instructions, that, unfortunately, is not always the case. A competent notary should know his or her state laws well enough to be able to spot and question a situation and relay his or her concerns to the appropriate parties.

I have never spent any significant amount of time on the phone verifying whether a spouse needs to sign. Nor, have I ever experienced the question of who signs creating a nightmare signing.

Since the title company is obligated to insure an enforceable lien, the title company does, indeed, have a say in requiring all necessary signatures on the security instrument. The alternative would be to issue a policy to the lender excepting the spouse's interest - an alternative that I cannot imagine would be acceptable to any lender.

I don't see raising the question to the hiring party as overstepping one's boundaries. It is specifically relevant to getting the docs signed correctly, on the first visit. Again, I am not suggesting that any notary should make the decision as to who signs, only that the notary should make the effort to clarify with the hiring party. This is in agreement with most of the replies to the original question.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/29/08 10:34pm
Msg #273075

Re: I disagree, CF & Ernest

<<It is specifically relevant to getting the docs signed correctly, on the first visit. >>

I think you have a valid point. Having a little basic understanding can help a good NSA know when to ask a question. It might be relevant to confirming who needs to be present, or finding out that there's a document missing. Most borrowers don't have a clue and don't think it's an issue if they acquired property in their own name before they married, for example. They know property was last recorded in their own name so they don't see any need for the spouse to be present.

But that gets back to the point that the question should be directed to title to get a correct answer.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/30/08 7:11am
Msg #273076

Re: I disagree, CF & Ernest

asking the hiring company was my original reason for my rant. I'm guessing if this young lady received 5 answers of "wife is to sign docs x, y and z" and no other responses, that is exactly what she would have done. It is completely beyond my comprehension that she would even ask a question like this here rather than go to her client.

the "problem" with us determining on our own who should sign which docs won't happen at the closing, and probably not right after, especially if we come up with the answer our client would come up with. The "problem" will arise down the road in a divorce, estate or bankruptcy situation where signing certain docs has created (if only for litigation purposes) a marital interest in the property where none existed previously. I sure don't want to be the one to have made that call on my own.