Posted by Negrete on 12/17/08 3:47pm
Msg #272157

US Department of Justice just called me about NNA

This same girl called me about 2 weeks ago about the same thing. She also mentioned that they where looking into Notary NETWORKS and them fixing prices too. I told them about the NNA site and how they had prices that the suggested to charge, now if thats not price fixing I don't know what is.

Don't know if I would be in a network at this time. I know that this comment is going to get me blasted but, I am just telling you what the girl at the US Dept of Justice talked to me about. And NO I did not out any networks anywhere.

Well maybe Brenda and the TX newtwork ( NOT )

Anthony J Negrete

Reply by CF on 12/17/08 3:59pm
Msg #272161

How would belonging to a network have anything to do

with fixed pricing?

Reply by Negrete on 12/17/08 4:01pm
Msg #272163

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

Most networks agree on a fixed price amongst one another.

Reply by Prosperity on 12/17/08 4:03pm
Msg #272164

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

That's why I'm glad to be an outsider. Saves me from a lot of headaches.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/17/08 4:06pm
Msg #272165

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

That's not true, at least not in my experience with the Virginia Notary Network. I have never been approached by the other networks to fix prices, either.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/17/08 4:14pm
Msg #272166

I think you are VERY wrong

I can't even agree upon a fee w/myself, let alone agree on and set a fee w/others. Even within a state, there are great differences between the way each individual runs their business. In a big suburban area, someone may be able to keep their appointments within a 10-15 mile radius and keep a full schedule. Go to the other side of the state in the mountains and a 100 mile radius may be necessary.

I charge a higher fee (knock on wood) than many others in PA do and yet I am still busier than they are. That's because, among other things - I've got more experience; I've been at this a long time and have a VERY large contact 'file'; I am truly available fulltime; I will do a 10:00 p.m. appt. when the call comes at 9:30, unlike so many others who state they want 2 hours notice for docs, let alone the appointment, etc. How in the world can someone who does one loan a week on the way home from her 'regular job' fix a fee with me who does this for a fulltime job?

Again, I think you are VERY wrong about the purpose of networks.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/17/08 10:03pm
Msg #272245

Re: I think you are VERY wrong

Sue, you are right. Although we discuss fees, we don't charge the same fees.
We all live in different areas, some provide for better fees than others, some are
in metropolitan areas, others in rural, gas prices vary .10 or more at times, etc etc etc.
The Florida Network has NEVER set fees at any time, and we have never even discussed it,
and would never consider it. We can each charge what is profitable for us.
We even do probono work. No fee.
FWIW, I spoke with her also today, and she didn't mention the networks one time in our
long conversation.
She asked about the NNA, their potential price fixing,
monopolization of Florida ENS, SS, and their set fees, non-payments to notary, and certain for profit supposed notary advocate groups.
Not once did she mention the word networks.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 12/17/08 4:21pm
Msg #272168

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

"Most networks agree on a fixed price amongst one another."

The above statement is once again a false statement form an uninformed person.

A network is a group of like minded professionals that market together. Speaking for California NSA Network none of us agree on a set fixed price. We are all independent contractors that set our own fees based on each individual job. The think we do agree on amongst ourselves is "each member upholds professional standards and does not accept extremely low fees that show a lack of respect for their own work."

Now I would think that a signing service that advertises that they pay a flat $100 for an edocs signing would have a lot more to worry about in the way of being accused of price fixing then a network would.

Reply by Negrete on 12/17/08 4:27pm
Msg #272170

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

"Now I would think that a signing service that advertises that they pay a flat $100 for an edocs signing would have a lot more to worry about in the way of being accused of price fixing then a network would."

I had an idea that I would get this kind of reaction from people, thats exactly why I said what I said. I did not fall off the turnip truck just the other day. I have been in this SS busniess for almost 6 yrs and I know how people work in this industry. It is what it is.

Again I did not out one single notary network name or it's members, although they did ask me too. I just told them that I do NOT use any networks.

I mostly bashed the NNA.

Anthony J Negrete

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/17/08 4:35pm
Msg #272171

I've never seen a network that fixed prices...it doesn't

it doesn't even make any kind of sense to do that. Networks are usually statewide and the biggest factor in anyone's fee is travel/miles. How can anyone 'fix' a price for every mileage variable around? Sorry...even fails the common sense test.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/17/08 4:38pm
Msg #272173

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

Tony, if they (DoJ) call you back, PLEASE give them my number. I’d love to expound about the NNA, and their practices.

Reply by DebbieT on 12/17/08 4:40pm
Msg #272174

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

The Florida NSA Network does not do price fixing. Everyone has their own prices as anyone would owning their own business.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/17/08 4:43pm
Msg #272176

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

And our marketing materials make it clear that we are not a signing service, therefore fees must be negotiated with each individual and will vary based on the services requested.

Reply by DebbieT on 12/17/08 4:44pm
Msg #272178

Re: Funny you should mention that Negrets......

Three of our network members have already received those calls today and they only were interested in the NNA and the SS......

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/17/08 4:46pm
Msg #272179

Tony, I have worked for you and I have been a member of the

Florida NSA Network for the last two years.

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/17/08 5:51pm
Msg #272200

Ditto, T and I think Misty also works for him. Not only that

but I got a call from another NSA in another state network that said she also works for Tony. More nonsense from a paranoid SS owner?

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/17/08 6:07pm
Msg #272204

Re: Ditto, T and I think Misty also works for him. Not only that

I know Tony was/is aware I am in the Florida NSA Network. We never discussed "network" pricing when he called me for work, just the details of the particular job and what fee "I" was willing to do the job for.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/17/08 7:57pm
Msg #272239

Re: Ditto, T and I think Misty also works for him. Not only

"Most networks agree on a fixed price amongst one another."


I think that's probably pushing it a bit. I tend to agree with Becca that kind of statement seems to wreak of a level of paranoia, but I doubt there is is any price fixing within networks.

The problem is that people took the NNA's "minimum recommendations" and turned them into some kind of apparent industry standard where it was never meant to be that way. NSAs should charge the fees they charge, and companies should pay a competitive rate based on the feedback they get from the people doing the actual work for them... not any organization.

But again... if it were left to some NSAs, including some here.... fees would never be lower than $125. In those cases, I can see why some might not like that, either. I know I don't. $85 for one person might be equivalent to $150 to someone else with more expenses. It's not up to anyone to decide rates except the NSA wanting the work. I take as much offense to people insisting NSAs taking less than $100 are hurting the industry as I do to the NNA saying $65 is a "base" rate for work.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/17/08 10:08pm
Msg #272246

He knows we are both in the network

and he knows our fees are not the same.
If he doesn't he can check his records.

Reply by dickb/wi on 12/17/08 9:22pm
Msg #272243

IMHO...that is a totaly false and rediculas statement!!!!!.. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/17/08 4:42pm
Msg #272175

Re: How would belonging to a network have anything to do

The question as it was put to me was (and this is not verbatim) "Do you know of any notaries who get together to establish a set fee"....

Not sure if this is where they were going with it but networks came to mind immediately.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/17/08 4:50pm
Msg #272180

Not that I'm defending the NNA, but I never got the impression from *them* that their fee schedule was "set". Everything I read said that is was a suggested minimum fee based on national averages. They just happen to tell naive and money grubbing companies this, who happened to take that to mean, "You should *only* pay $65 for this service." Frankly, a lot of notaries (including here) took it to mean that, too.

I always thought their minimums were ridiculous, because fees vary so much from state to state, city to city because of expenses... there's just no possible way to quote a minimum that would make everyone happy, much less actually be of any use.


I've honestly seen more clamoring for a "price fix" at places like here at NotRot from notaries who preach we should accept no less than $125... than from the NNA.

Of course, the NNA has plenty of problems, and we can all cite plenty of them. But price-fixing because they suggest minimum fees? Minimum fees, by the way that just about every single notary signing agent in the country laughs at because they know those recommendations are ridiculously low?

I have to wonder if this isn't stemming from the recent murmurings we've been seeing at places like ActiveRain where real estate agents and loan officers are starting to blame "mobile closers" for the mortgage crisis. Are lenders and title companies now auditing (or being audited) and saying, "Hey, I know we paid $135.00 for the notary, but the NNA told us it only should have $65...." and are now having this hurt them? By using the NNA's suggested minimums, these companies might be trying to deflect the "fraud blame" on to people like us. That's a bit of wil speculation on my part, of course.


I dunno... I just think the NNA fees were so ridiculous that I found it hard to believe anyone could actually take it seriously. I did do a search, and sure enough, the NNA has pulled a LOT of articles from the site that talk about fees and fee structures. Google cache is your friend!

Also, MSG #129546 has an interesting response from them 2 years ago about this:

"There is no national legal standard governing the fees paid to Signing Agents. It can range anywhere between the ridiculously low ($25) to very high ($300 or more for the package). We created the minimum fee schedule as a base guideline to give Notaries some sense where they should draw the line. While we recommend that Notaries do not accept assignments for less than the minimum fee schedule, we encourage all to continue to negotiate for better compensation."



This sounds like some posters here, as I've said above, who insist that those who accept jobs under $125 are hurting the industry.

Again, I'm not defending the NNA. They really had no business setting a fee schedule to begin with, high or low. There are just too many variables. BUT... before too many people get all giddy about this news, you should stop and think about the prevailing attitude about fees to begin with. If many of you had your way, NSAs would never makes less than $125 a job. How is that attitude any better than what the NNA did by suggesting minimum fees?

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 12/17/08 5:13pm
Msg #272186

that is the best post I have read on here in years... good for you Marian well put

Reply by Doris_CO on 12/17/08 5:17pm
Msg #272189

Re: Was anything mentioned about the BGC and NNA?

Since the NNA has convinced a number of title and mortgage companies that the Notaries must be background checked and only NNA's background checks are acceptable, I'd lean toward that as "price fixing" rather then the fees advertised on NNA's site. There have been posts in the last week or two about companies telling the Notary they must be background checked through NNA before they can work for the company.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/17/08 5:20pm
Msg #272190

I mentioned it to her, Doris...and she asked

if you had to be a member to get a BGC...(yep)....

Also mentioned that I wasn't happy that the NNA was the only place to get my e-notarization seal...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/17/08 5:42pm
Msg #272197

Re: Was anything mentioned about the BGC and NNA?

Now the background check thing I get to a point. NNA's background check was nothing compared to the one the state of California just put me through. In fact, the NNA's check did not even bother to search my maiden name, even though I provided it on my application. It seemed to only go back about 5-7 years. Eh... when it comes to the NNA, I'm indifferent to mildly annoyed by them. They're a source of work that, had I paid for my membership, would have paid foritself several times over now. So, I can't really complain too much.

All I know is that *I* set my fees, nobody else. NNA's suggested fees are far too low than I would consider going in the vast majority of cases. I mean... unless my next door neighbor was doing a simple loan mod, then I'd probably do it on the cheap (by my standards). But, each "job" is unique and has a ton of variables that no fee schedule from a national organization would influence me.

Reply by Mia on 12/17/08 4:53pm
Msg #272181

How are they coming up with.....

How are they coming up with names of certain people to call? Why would they choose these
people? Did someone file a complaint, which caused these phone calls?
Hmmm, something is not adding up.

**And back in the September 1, 2005 issue, "they" talked about the "Fee Schedule" at the
Conference workshop.***

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 12/17/08 5:10pm
Msg #272185

I dont think the notary or the SS is who they are looking

for..
I know a company in the Woodland Hills area, who charges the borrower $350.00 per signing.
Then the $350.00 is spread between the loan officer, the scheduler (SS in some cases), and then the signing agent. (this is an ugly scene) Sometimes even the escrow company gets a cut, if they pick the right SS.
This is in my opinion who they should be looking for.

NNA offering ideas of pricing, is not fixing prices, the notary networks are not fixing prices, as to my knowledge there is not one network you can not get around

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/17/08 5:23pm
Msg #272191

Sorry, Tony, you are very wrong and don't seem to...

understand what the networks are all about. We are MARKETING and REFERRAL Networks and all of the members work and run their businesses the way they see fit. I know for at fact that you have used someone in my area that used to be a network member because she charges less than I do. If you ask me, it's not only the NNA that is guilty of price fixing, among other things, (IMO) It's also the signing services that whore out the NSAs because they can't seem to negotiate a deal directly that would benefit all parties involved so the SSs just say "sorry this is what we believe your services are worth and that's that."

In addition to the NSA network, I also belong to a wedding offciant network. We share leads and refer to one another just like the NSA network. If you were to check out every member’s website you would find that we all offer different services and we all charge different fees, just like the NSA networks.

Don’t get too excited there, Tony. The two NSAs I spoke with today that happened to get “the call” both stated that the interviewer was no longer interested in the networks, but more so interested in signing services. On notary stated that the interviewer stated that the networks were just a group of notaries just trying to find more business…which is EXACTLY correct.

Tony, why are you so paranoid about NSAs sharing leads and referring one another? Are you just excited to “bust up” the networks so you can buy up domain names and redirect then to your website?

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 12/17/08 5:27pm
Msg #272193

Are you sure that it was DOJ that called?

DOJ usually knocks on your door and shows ID.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/17/08 5:37pm
Msg #272196

Positive Glenn, I traced the call back... n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/17/08 5:43pm
Msg #272198

Re: Positive Glenn, I traced the call back...

U.S. Department of Justice
Antitrust Division
600 E Street, N.W.
Suite 9500
Washington, D.C. 20530
Tel: 202/307-1027

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 12/17/08 5:57pm
Msg #272201

Re: Positive Glenn, I traced the call back...

Well, that could be I guess. I am one of those guys that doesn't talk to anyone over the phone that claims to be any type of authority. It is pretty simple business to have any phone number the caller wants show up on your caller id if they have some hacking ability. I have received calls in the past from people identifying themselves this agency or that agency, and I just tell them "I don't discuss this type of thing over the phone, would you like to make an appointment with me to meet me at the your local office or the Victorville police station?" I have yet to be taken up on that offer. And yes, someone identifying themselves ad DOJ called me also asking about the NNA, but "private" showed up in the caller id. There is no way I will discuss anything like this over the telephone. If they are serious, they will make the appointment to meet with you in person.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/17/08 6:06pm
Msg #272203

Re: Positive Glenn, I traced the call back...

Or, if they aren't local... ask how you can call THEM.

Someone from the DOJ would be able to have you call a known, published number and connect to them that way.

I had someone from my bank call a couple weeks back about a fraud alert. I didn't even discuss it with them and they said they understood and said I could go in to my local branch, or call the customer service number on my ATM card. I didn't... thought it was a hoax. Later that night I tried to use my card to buy groceries and it was declined.

I went home embarrassed and angry... call the bank to find out that they had canceled that card immediately because I had apparently used my cards at a location with a verified security breach. They said my account was never compromised, but to be safe they were issuing a new card.

It's always good to be leery, but sometimes a phone call really is legit, and if they are, they'll give you a means of verifying it.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 12/17/08 6:47pm
Msg #272213

Apples and oranges

Well as far as the credit card, they have called and then I call back on the number on the back of the card. I wouldn't let it go.

My way of checking on a phone call from a law enforcement agency is to offer to make an appointment to meet personally and I want to see some ID. Sorry, no phone interviews .... I spent much of my military time and a few years after discharge working with such law enforcement agencies and I know what the drill use to be. If it is important, you get a personal visit. Believe me, even if you live in outback city, population 20, there is a federal law enforcement agency close by. But perhaps they do call now to to save time and money. But I don't care. When it involves legal issues, no phone interviews. Period.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/17/08 7:20pm
Msg #272224

Re: Apples and oranges

That makes sense to me, actually. I suppose these calls aren't much more than informal research from what I can tell as people are reporting.

I do find it interesting that the NNA pulled a bunch of their articles off the site today, though. Probably just a CYA move, even though it's silly since there are cached copies of it everywhere as well as people who have the physical newsletter they mailed out.

It all seems ridiculous, though, to question price-fixing from an organization that set suggested minimums so low that virtually nobody will ever accept fees that low anyway. It's really laughable.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/17/08 7:36pm
Msg #272231

Re: Apples and oranges

...so low that virtually nobody will ever accept fees that low anyway. It's really laughable....

Actually, I'm guessing more 'certified signing agents' than not accept those low fees. Read the beginner boards (filled with pitiful advice I might add from new people to new people). They work so cheap it's amazing. Look at this board - you see people complaining about companies that pay dirt cheap fees ... just think how many are out there that don't know about these boards.

I know a handful of others in my area and seldom do any of us receive the $40/$50 calls others post about ... because that work's not available in our area? or because they have a stable full of people who do an order here and there for extra money?

Reply by MW/VA on 12/17/08 6:25pm
Msg #272207

They called me today, also. I couldn't talk with them so they will be calling me in the morning.
I know another notary posted about contact with them several months ago. I will post after my call w/them.

Reply by jba/fl on 12/17/08 7:06pm
Msg #272218

I feel totally left out - I did not get any such call.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 12/17/08 10:46pm
Msg #272253

I talked to them a couple of months ago..

I was interviewed by them a couple of months ago. They asked a ton of questions about price fixing. How do I set me fees, how do others set theirs, what about SSs and the NNA? The questions seemed to settle on fees and the NNA. We spoke for about 45 min. When we were finished, I really felt that they were looking for bigger fish than the NSA. I felt more like they were more interested in the NNA. I recorded the conversation, I will listen to it again tomorrow.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 12/17/08 10:56pm
Msg #272256

Re: I talked to them a couple of months ago..

I also spoke to the NNA President and the Executive Producer about the suggest fee schedule. I was asked if it should be raised? I responded yes or better yet remove it all together. The next thing I looked at the site I could not find it!

Reply by MW/VA on 12/18/08 10:27am
Msg #272300

I spoke with them by phone this morning. For those who are getting the calls, of course it is about a price-fixing issue. I was specifically asked if anyone ever insisted I use the NNA suggested fee schedule. Of course the answer to that was "no". We all know we are independent contractors and there are so many variables when it comes to fees. IME there are a few companies that follow those fee guidelines, but I choose whether to work with them or not.