Posted by ScottMN on 2/7/08 1:08pm
Msg #234482

E notarizations

I was just notified that AmTrust will be moving to e notarizations on March 1. This will not be a total change over but they will be charging the borrower a significant closing fee for using the standard paper method over e notarizations. From what I was told they will be using esign which as far as I can tell is their own system for enotarizations. The hud and Mortgage will still be signed on paper and notarized in the traditional manner but everything else will be done on computer.
Does anyone have any info on esign or other types of enotarization now that we are quickly headed into a new direction of closing?

Reply by snoopdogMs on 2/7/08 5:59pm
Msg #234528

I just had a call today from a title company asking if I was prepared to handle an e-notarization because AmTrust was the lender. The Mississippi legislature is looking at e-notarization but has not passed the law to put it into effect. According to the SOS here, they are not supporting the idea and hope it dies on the floor.

Reply by Vince/KS on 2/7/08 7:14pm
Msg #234536

"Pilot" stage here in Kansas n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/7/08 7:23pm
Msg #234540

There seems to be a lot of confusion about e-notarizations. Last time I looked, only PA and FL allow it (someone correct me if there are other states), and it requires specialized software and hardware.

What you're describing sounds more like an "e-closing", where the TC or lender has a POA from the borrower and can sign in their stead. They may want the mortgage done in the traditional manner because they're concerned about recording issues, and they'd also need a notary present with the borrower for any jurats. That's not an e-notarization, even if they decide to call it that way.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/7/08 9:07pm
Msg #234552

I agree that it does not sound like a real e-notarization. However, your statement that only PA and FL allow e-notarizations is doubtful. E-SIGN and the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act seem to allow e-notarizations. If the SOS has not issued any regulations about how to do it, it may be up to the discretion of the contracting parties and the notary.

There would be some problems. People in this forum are mostly interested in notarized documents that can be recorded; most states don't have any method of recording electronic documents. Another problem is that if the document is to be sent to another country and needs an apostille, most states are not equipped to issue an apostille to an electronic document.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/8/08 7:40pm
Msg #234712

<< However, your statement that only PA and FL allow e-notarizations is doubtful. E-SIGN and the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act seem to allow e-notarizations. If the SOS has not issued any regulations about how to do it, it may be up to the discretion of the contracting parties and the notary.>>

I said I wasn't sure about which states allowed it, so if someone has an updated list they should post it.

The Uniform Electronic Transactions Act is very nice, but last time I looked each state still controls their own notary laws. It's not up to the SOS to issue regulations on how to comply with the Act, it's up to the state legislature to change the law to allow compliance.

e-Notarization will not fly in NY at this time because we have very specific rules on how a notarization is to be done (including wet signature); some counties take it a step further and specify ink color for the signature. Do the notarization wrong on a recordable document, and it ain't gonna record... I suspect most other states that have not embraced e-Notarization are the same way.

Finally, it's rarely going to be up to the discretion of the contracting parties and the notary - the notary is bound by state law and has no discretion other than what the law allows.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/8/08 9:30pm
Msg #234735

I believe this will be a county by county decision in some states, since it will depend on the County Recorder's abitlity to accept DOTs or mortgages signed electronically. Of course, this will assume that it is first allowable under state law.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/10/08 4:09am
Msg #234849

The Uniform Electronic Transactions Act is a model law which a non-profit organization, the National Conference of State Legislatures, suggest the states pass. A list of the states that have passed it is available at http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/CIP/ueta-statutes.htm. New York has NOT passed it.

ESIGN is a federal law. Part of it says

NOTARIZATION AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT.—If a statute, regulation,
or other rule of law requires a signature or record relating
to a transaction in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce
to be notarized, acknowledged, verified, or made under oath, that
requirement is satisfied if the electronic signature of the person
authorized to perform those acts, together with all other information
required to be included by other applicable statute, regulation,
or rule of law, is attached to or logically associated with the signature
or record.

At first glance, it would seem that since federal laws trump state laws,
e-notarization is legal everywhere. However, the law also has a ton
of compllicated language about when the states can override ESIGN,
and when they can't. I can't figure it out.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 2/7/08 9:42pm
Msg #234560

The National Nonsense Association would have everyone believe that eNotarization is in the near future. Don't believe it, for all of the reasons already stated.

Reply by JK/TX on 2/8/08 6:43am
Msg #234580

This discussion came up during an assignment. The borrower said it was offered to him and he turned it down... was not comfortable with it....... he works for Microsoft (?!)

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/8/08 2:08pm
Msg #234675

E notarizations & computer gurus

I'm not a bit suprised that the Microsoft guy wouldn't do an e-notarization. I once wrote software for a company in the Dow Jones average that used secure hash codes (one of the under-the-covers steps in e-notarization) to make sure the digital design kits they sent to people who bought integrated circuits from them were valid. But when it comes to my own money, the biggest transaction I was willing to do digitally was a sales contract rider allowing me to get the septic tank inspected on a house I was buying. I suspect that other people who have looked at the guts of digital signatures are equally skeptical, especially as things stand now.