Posted by Cari on 2/8/08 7:21am
Msg #234584

OMG...late night refi signing from HELL!

7pm signing last call for the day. In a nut shell: BO was irrate, that her loan docs did NOT include her middle initial on them? This was a first for me.

We started the signing, and I noticed that she was signing with her middle initial, which wasn't included on her loan docs. When I explained to her, that she should sign the docs according to how it was stated on the paperwork, she said that she wasn't going to.

She then started complaining that there's another woman on her block with the same name, and that her middle initial differentiates her from that woman. She was very very irrate! And I was absolutely amazed...never in my 17 years have I seen a BO so pissed off like this one.

To top it off, she threw the docs at me, told me to 'get out' and don't come back. Said she wanted another person to come back out there, with the right paperwork, and explain every detail on her docs to her.

(I had previously advised her to speak with her LO about her loan and explained that a notary can only explain certain things by law.)

Then, as I was leaving, she threw open her screen door so loudly, it hit something and then three (menacing looking) guys were eyeballing me as I was walking to my car - one of them asked I had any money! I was so frickin' scared that I just ignored him and got in my car as fast as I could. (I left my mace in the car!)

Reply by hp/MD on 2/8/08 8:05am
Msg #234589

Ins't it the fact that the BO can sign more but not less. Any comment?

Reply by sue_pa on 2/8/08 8:19am
Msg #234594

When have you ever seen that, except on message boards? I've done A LOT of loans and each and every one of them has written instructions, sometimes written several places, to sign as typed. I have never, ever seen anything from a lender or title company that says they can sign more.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 2/8/08 8:42am
Msg #234600

They don't say that on paperwork but usually will if called

All paperwork tells the borrower they have to sign exactly as written on the documents, and of course most of us have run across paperwork that has been prepared by two or three different people at the Lender and the TC, where the borrower is "John Jones" on the TC paperwork and "John J. Jones" on the Lender paperwork or vice versa. In those cases, I look at the DOT. I have the borrower sign the "John J. Jones" docs with "John J. Jones" and the other docs with "John Jones", making sure the Note and DOT are signed with the name printed on them.
I will call the SS, TC and/or Lender if I can reach anyone for clarification to let them know about the name differences printed on the docs.
The major nuisance is if there is no name printed under the signature line on some docs and there are two different versions printed on other docs. You'll have no name, John Jones and John J. Jones in the same package. In those cases, the borrowers sign John J. Jones on everything except the DOT, and sign the DOT the way it's printed under the signature line...or if as in some cases it's not printed under the signature line, then sign the way the name appears on the first page, i.e. John Jones and Mary Sue Jones or John J. Jones and Mary S. Jones or John Joseph Jones and Mary Jones, etc.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/8/08 9:23am
Msg #234608

sue_pa, I agree...I feel this is one of those`

notary legends...less is more...more is less. Notary urban myth.

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/8/08 10:21am
Msg #234620

Sue and Brenda

This is a fact and a rule of thumb. I have experienced this with the three title companies I have work for and many more that I have done contract work for. As long a all variations of names/signatures are listed on the name aff. the lender will accept the docs.

Not notary urban myth or legend.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/8/08 10:50am
Msg #234632

Re: Sue and Brenda

Becca, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Three title companies do not write the rules for everyone.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/8/08 11:04am
Msg #234636

Becca - I re-read your post

...and realize you reference more than one title company...sorry... I wanted to acknowledge that I had misinterpreted what you said in my fast reading.

The point is that if there are 100 lenders, 99 of them don't write the rules for all 100 of them.

The only acceptable practice and rule of thumb for this board IMHO is to follow the lenders'/ tc's written instructions and don't assume anything.

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/8/08 10:10am
Msg #234616

Over endorsing is usually acceptable but under endorsing is not.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 2/8/08 8:10am
Msg #234591

Lenders generally accept more but never less

You'd probably have been OK with letting her sign with her middle initial since the general rule of thumb is that "more is OK but less is not". In other words, if the docs read "John Jones", he can sign John Jones, John J. Jones or John Joseph Jones, but not J. Jones". If the docs read John J. Jones, he can sign John J. Jones or John Joseph Jones, but not John Jones.
And of course that late at night, I'm sure everyone who could have advised you one way or the other had gone home and was unreachable, unless she had her L.O.'s cell phone number, and even then you probably couldn't have reached the L.O. That's a major downside to late-night assignments.
It sounds like she had some serious issues and was venting them on you as the only visible person available.
Be sure you put everything that happened in writing in a very detailed email immediately to the TC or the SS that hired you and follow up with a phone call explaining the situation. The TC or SS can use your email to refute any BS the borrower might claim about your visit. A good TC or SS will "defend your honor" when a sicko borrower pulls something like this.
Good luck!

Reply by kathy/ca on 2/8/08 8:16am
Msg #234592

I agree with Cari, docs should be signed as printed. The

more but not less rule applies to ID not the way the signer signs their name.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/8/08 8:19am
Msg #234593

Most lenders want docs signed "exactly as names are written"

and supply specific instructions to that effect. Cari's right - the "more not less" rule applies to ID, not signatures on docs...JMO

Reply by Shane_OH on 2/8/08 8:40am
Msg #234599

Re: Lenders generally accept more but never less

Not any lender I've ever closed for....
Thats a quick way to lose business and clients by having them sign a different way that what is on the documents.

Lenders/TC are not so cavalier.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 2/8/08 8:49am
Msg #234601

Yes, they are "cavalier" if the doc names are messed up

I've never lost business and clients by having them sign with more than is printed under the line on the "junk docs". The critical docs are the Note and DOT that have to be filed.
Again, if the docs have no name printed under the signature line, first and last name printed on others, and first middle initial last name on others and even first middle and last name completely spelled out on still others, and you cannot reach anyone at the signing agency, the title company or the lender to clarify, are you going to pick up the paperwork and leave? No, of course not. You'll have the borrowers sign the ones with no name printed under the signature line with the longest version of their names that is on any of the documents.
As for the rest, I've found that having them sign the way the name appears on the DOT is acceptable since that's how they took title, and sometimes that's more than is printed under the signature line on some docs. Some junk docs are "John Jones", but the DOT is John J. Jones. The borrower is busy signing and puts "John J. Jones" on the junk docs. That has always been accepted by the TC and lender.

Reply by Ndwa on 2/8/08 3:26pm
Msg #234692

Concur w/Becca...Further

To sign "exactly as print" means the signature should/must match the "form" in which the name was typewritten (ie. first 'midddle' last), which cover the loops, chicken scratches, etc.

However, the best way to handle this or any other situations with borrowers is to inform them of the effect it has with funding of the loan if they don't comply.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/8/08 8:59pm
Msg #234724

Re: Yes, they are "cavalier" if the doc names are messed up

I don't completely agree. Since most of the time the junk docs are all the same (not always) and the lender's docs are all the same, I try to match them based on who drew them up. In other words, if it's a lender doc with no name, they should sign as shown by the lender on other docs. If it is from the tc, then I try to have them match it with the rest of those. Of course, as we know, sometimes it's such a mess you just have to go with your gut. I DO agree, however, that oftentimes the tc isn't as fussy as the lender. Sometimes I wonder if they even look at those or if they just get shoved into a file for posterity.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/9/08 9:30am
Msg #234783

Having the borrower sign the way it is printed

unless otherwise stated is the safest policy.

The title docs/junk docs are just belts and suspenders most of the time, anyhow, for the title company's part of the deal. (What say you, JK/TX?)

Going with the lender's instructions make for the happiest lenders.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/11/08 12:01am
Msg #234889

Re: Having the borrower sign the way it is printed

I completely agree. My post above was only in reference to those docs that don't have a name typed in so we have to figure out what to do.