Posted by bowie_MD on 2/7/08 2:32pm
Msg #234496

love the thumb print

TC called me today and said seller said the deal was a fraud that she never signed the POA to the 3rd party investor allowing the sale. that she never appeared before a notary.
I took my book to the TC showing here license info, signature and the very clear thumb print. The TC had a big sigh of relief

Reply by WDMD on 2/7/08 2:38pm
Msg #234501

"I took my book to the TC showing here license info, signature and the very clear thumb print. The TC had a big sigh of relief "

Why did you have to show the TC your journal? Other than the thumbprint, which is not required in Maryland, the TC didn't believe you ID'ed the borrower and completed your journal correctly?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/7/08 9:02pm
Msg #234550

It seems like a good start, but someone will have to get a reliable thumbprint from the purported signer to see if it matches the journal.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 2/7/08 9:27pm
Msg #234555

Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

... or even the photocopy of the journal entry with their signature, cave in immediately and admit they "forgot".

Reply by WDMD on 2/8/08 5:58am
Msg #234578

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

Personally, I would refuse to give the thumbprint. But then ,I know my states notary laws. Most non-notaries have no idea that it is not required of them.
There is one notary running around this area requiring thumbprints from everyone. She happened to be the one who was sent to do my re-fi. She was refusing to do the signing unless I gave her my thumbprint. In that case I had no choice but give it to her because the loan had to sign that day.

Sometimes these boards do more damage than good. Some, speaking generally, read what is required in other states and take it upon themselves to make it their own requirement.

Reply by Vince/KS on 2/8/08 7:40am
Msg #234586

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

Kansas does not require a journal (so no information or thumb print) but the SOS office strongly recommends it for the print as follows from the Notary Handbook:

“11. Should I keep a log book of notarizations which I perform?
There is no statutory requirement in Kansas that a notary public keep a log book or journal. However, it is recommended that a notary public keep one for his or her own records and protection from liability.”

It seems as the SOS has a strong opinion of the need to do this added step as it enhances protection from liability. They do not say whether that would only protect the notary or also the borrower or lender should the case arise. So, I’ve always required a complete entry and thumb print for each borrower signing the loan.

Reply by WDMD on 2/8/08 8:09am
Msg #234590

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

"It seems as the SOS has a strong opinion of the need to do this added step as it enhances protection from liability. They do not say whether that would only protect the notary or also the borrower or lender should the case arise. So, I’ve always required a complete entry and thumb print for each borrower signing the loan."


Maryland does not strongly recommend the taking of a thumbprint. In fact, they do not mention a thumbprint at all when discussing what is required information in a Maryland notaries journal.

I don't know how it is in Kansas but in Maryland if a notary refuses a valid request,meaning if the signer refused to provide a thumbprint,(not required by statute) but still had everything else required by statute, the notary could be suspended or lose their commission if the notary refused to do the notarization and someone reported them to SOS.

There is nothing in the stautue here prohibiting the taking of a thumbprint, just like there is no prohibition on a notary requiring only passports as a valid ID.

Reply by Vince/KS on 2/8/08 10:09am
Msg #234615

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

The Maryland handbook says:
19. What records must a notary keep?
Each notary public is required by law to keep a fair register of all official acts performed. A fair register would include at least:
a. A record of the name and address of each person coming before the notary;
b. The date when they appeared;
c. The method by which each person was identified to the notary;
d. The type of official act (oath or affirmation, acknowledgment, protest, notary as an official witness);
e. The type of document involved (deed, mortgage, lease, motor vehicle form, deposition, etc.);
f. The fee charged; and
g. Signature(s) of person(s) signing document.

While it does not indicate a thumb print specifically, it does say "A fair register would include at least:" The words "at least" here would likely mean the notary may ask for more (like the thumb print portion included in most popular logs). You are right, it is unclear. But IF it protects my position as a Notary Public and could also benefit both the client and the borrower, it seems like a reasonable request. As no one has refused to have the thumb print done for me yet, the lack of it in my book would stand out. Enough so that I would likely mention this as an incomplete item in my completion report to the TC.

Just my opinion (that others frequently disagree with).

Reply by WDMD on 2/8/08 10:55am
Msg #234633

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

I guess if the state had to list all the things that are not required the handbook would be as thick as a phone book. It must be easier for them to list the requirements, which is all that is legally required for a valid notarization. If a signer refused to provide a thumbprint, the notary has no right to refuse the notarization.

Reply by WDMD on 2/8/08 11:01am
Msg #234635

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

" It must be easier for them to list the requirements, which is all that is legally required for a valid notarization."

Correction:

It must be easier for the state to list the requirements for the journal, which is all that a notary is required by law to do.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/8/08 9:42pm
Msg #234738

Re: Most people, when confronted with the thumb print, ...

I once did a signing for someone in the legal profession who said that her office was currently prosecuting a case where a man had showed up to sign a refi with his girlfriend posing as his wife (presumably with a fake ID.) CA requires a thumbprint for documents related to title transfers (and now POAs), so when the wife found out about this two years later, the thumbprint in the ntoary's journal allowed them to find the girlfriend and proceed with a case against her (and probably the husband) for fraud. Sometimes the system works! (BTW, I didn't ask if the girlfriend was a blond...)

FWIW, I nearly always ask for a thumbprint from everyone whether it is required by law or not, but if someone protests, I won't push the issue if it's not a requirement. I've only once had someone refuse.

Reply by Barbara A Demonte on 2/8/08 10:49pm
Msg #234744

Me too, an attorney refused to the thumbprint. n/m