Posted by LKT/CA on 1/9/08 10:00pm
Msg #229902

Certification.....Clearing the Air

No one wants to hire the newly commissioned Notary...PERIOD.... for a loan signing. It's difficult enough to get someone to give the newbie a chance when only the most experienced Notary is wanted - and with GOOD reason. The most experienced are the most efficient and make the least mistakes, no question about that. Totally understandable to want the best in the biz.

What are the chances of even a SS hiring and giving work to a new Notary to do a loan signing without the additional education beyond the basics? I would say NONE.

I believe there has been a miscommunication regarding certification. It is completely understood that the veteran Notary who has established years of business relationships doesn't need to run out and get certified. Obviously their experience and proven track record speaks for itself. HOWEVER, it is not useless, worthless or a joke for the new Notary, particularly one with no real estate background or who has never seen a loan doc. They would benefit from the additional loan signing class. The certification just means they took the time to become familiar with the specifics of loan signing. Beyond that, we know certification makes no guarantees. Doing the actual job many times is what gives them the experience.

Good character, integrity, ethics, and valuing the client are really what guarantee a job well done not experience alone. Plenty of people with experience do half-hearted, half-baked, slipshod work. One company is not endorsed over the other to be certified. There are plenty to pick from.

Reply by Pat/IL on 1/9/08 11:20pm
Msg #229912

Certification in most industries is meant to identify the best, not those who have taken a class and who mean well. It means that they have paid their dues in apprenticeship and have learned the trade. Ask any certified carpenter if they were allowed to be certified without having ever held a hammer.

Good character, integrity and valuing the client are certainly necessary componenets. But without experience, I have to agree with those who consider it a joke in the signing agent realm. That's not to say it can't become a real designation. It will take time and a change of attitude.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/10/08 12:12am
Msg #229918

I would think it would depend on the industry and who's doing the hiring as to whether certification is apprenticeship FIRST, then the test or whether course work comes FIRST before the test, then one is thrown into the lion's den for the experience.

Reply by rengel/CA on 1/9/08 11:45pm
Msg #229914

And who certifies the certifiers?

What makes a particular certification worth anything? I can give anyone a test and then a certification - but does it mean anything????? Until there are standards for certification, your 'certification' isn't worth the paper it is printed on.
My .02

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/10/08 12:03am
Msg #229915

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

<<<<What makes a particular certification worth anything?>>>>
You'll have to ask the SS's that as they expect it from the newbie.

<<<<I can give anyone a test.....>>>>
That's the point. A test is given on information LEARNED.

<<<<....your 'certification'.....>>>>>
WHOSE certification? Have no idea what your talking about there.

<<<<isn't worth the paper it is printed on.>>>>
Tell that to the SS who now expect it from the newbie.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/10/08 12:14am
Msg #229919

Correction...YOU'RE not YOUR n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/10/08 12:16am
Msg #229920

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

"<<<<I can give anyone a test.....>>>>
That's the point. A test is given on information LEARNED."

Not all tests.

Some signing services give tests and we see people asking for the answers on this board, and some do gooder usually comes along and gives them the answer and chides the rest of us for being so MEAN for telling the person that they should know these types of things before they ever become a signing agent. Combine that with a little googling, and these people can pass these tests without knowing jack about being a signing agent.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/10/08 12:40am
Msg #229924

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

Looks like we all speak different languages on this board. Seems that rengel is talking about the test the SS's give. I meant something else - the test given after taking the loan signing course. I've signed up with about 50 SS's and not one of them required I take a test. However, there was a box to check whether I was certified. That was at all 50 SS's.

Reply by desktopfull on 1/10/08 1:01am
Msg #229925

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

Business has been slow and I got tired of waiting for companies to find me in all the different databases, so I've been busy signing up with about 35 companies in the last 2 days and not one of them have asked if I am certified or had a little box to check if I'm certified. However most required 50 or more completed closings before applying and asked about my experience with closing the different types of mortgages. An open book test doesn't help anyone to retain the knowledge they need to present or close a loan. You read the question look up the answer and move on to the next question generally retaining nothing. The only goal is to pass the test, not learn the information.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/10/08 2:01am
Msg #229931

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

My loan doc signing course was an 8 hour course in a classroom with a live instructor. I learned A LOT from her teaching (and sense of humor) as she told stories and gave examples from her own trials and tribs of being a Notary that were not in the book. The class was not only informative but fun and entertaining. In addition to that course, I took an additional workshop where we practiced with mock docs and mock stamps and notarized all other types of docs. Again, more examples from true life that were not in a book. Then I took the test at home online and passing the test was a breeze, I didn't even need the book because I LEARNED and RETAINED so much from great instruction and a fun class. Met a student in the class that lives near me, we exchanged numbers and have agreed to be each other's back up in case either one of us can't accept a job.

Forgot to add that the SS's I signed up with also asked about years of experience in addition to the certification.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/10/08 5:43am
Msg #229937

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

I think how you handled your entrance into this industry vs. a simple certified test on line are not even close to each other. Most on this forum are referring to the on line open book tests that everyone/anyone can take with/without experience and pass with flying colors. You got some hands on while the online tests are simply a joke and not recognized by any professional SA although I am certain that SS gladly accept the certification because if that SA makes a mistake they can always say "but this one was certified"! Cali is 110% right on!

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/10/08 12:05pm
Msg #229983

Then why not make that distinction?

<<<<<I think how you handled your entrance into this industry vs. a simple certified test on line are not even close to each other.>>>>>

The 2 hour online course with open book test for certification vs. a class with a live instructor where hands on practice, networking and interactive exercises make for a more informed and prepared newbie.

Reply by rengel/CA on 1/10/08 10:52am
Msg #229968

rengel is NOT talking about

the tests that SS's give. Rengel is talking about a test for Certification i.e. NNA's test you have to take for their "certification", 123's test for their certification, and any other company who "certifies" Signing Agents. There is NO industry standard for certification, so any 'certification' is not worth much in MY opinion. The State of California does not 'certify' signing agents so, again, your certification really doesn't mean much, other than to your low ball SS's. And, from my experience, the more hoops they want you to jump through to get a signing, the less they pay and the more difficult it is to get paid.

And just for clarification, the NNA is NOT the authority on notary law. They are a private company who has nothing to do with commissioning notaries in any state, other than being a state approved company to provide classes.
My .02

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 1/10/08 11:01am
Msg #229970

Bingo. . .

>your certification really doesn't mean much<

No standards to measure the certification against.

Who certifies the certifier and is the final decider of the standards? (*I am the decider!* GWB)

Reply by ZeeCA on 1/10/08 12:38am
Msg #229923

Re: And who certifies the certifiers?

the ONLY ss that have ever asked me if I am certified? the low ballers.... to make them look good I guess.... since I refuse to work for free or to pay them for work I have never seen a need to be certified or to even give it a second, third or fourth thought.........

Reply by ZeeCA on 1/10/08 12:36am
Msg #229922

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO agree n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 1/10/08 5:58am
Msg #229938

Please understand I’m not trying to be hard on “Newbie’s”. Or people coming on this board asking for help, or direction. And with all due respect to the original poster asking about certification ( yeah, I WAS being a bit sarcastic) There is nothing like experience in this business, but being “certified” sure can’t hurt. One can (and should) learn something every day. There is so much to know that I'm not even going to go into it. To do this job properly, one needs to be fully versed in all the Federal and State laws concerning Real Property, Lending, and Finance, along with myriad of laws (some international) regarding documents, and the signatures thereon. Be people, detail, and sales, oriented. Have excellent communication skills, and good Judgment. How can someone that’s never even seen a “Loan Package” want to be a Notary Signing Agent, and think they can do a good job at closing loans? Someone that thinks a ‘Grantor’ is some academic type doing some sort of scientific research on Government money. Someone that took some two hour course online and now wants to make a hundred grand a year closing loans? I’m sorry but without a legal, real estate, lending, or title background, and a through knowledge of all the documents involved, I don’t think someone should be closing loans or purchases. These actions usually involve the largest and most important transaction a homeowner will make in their lives. And shouldn’t be conducted by some reject from the Jerry Springer show, now going into business for themselves. As I said in another post, why not just try brain surgery, it pays better.

Reply by BBuchler/CA on 1/10/08 4:03pm
Msg #230051

"I’m sorry but without a legal, real estate, lending, or title background, and a through knowledge of all the documents involved, I don’t think someone should be closing loans or purchases."

Hogwash.

Knowing the documents - yes. Because questions may be asked and the right document should be pointed to. But the answers to almost all questions is Ask Your LO. This does NOT require a certificate, or legal, real estate, lending or title background. This is not rocket science.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/10/08 5:35pm
Msg #230061

I guess you don’t have to know how to make a pizza to deliver one. There are many “Notary Signing Agents” out there that are nothing more than ‘delivery boys’. I’m sure that most lenders and title companies really want that type of representation across the signing table.