Posted by Shelly_FL on 1/7/08 9:20am
Msg #229195

Confessing my sins...need your help!

I screwed up royally, I admit it. I left the house Firday night without the HUD. I had no idea a second HUD was to be included, until I got to the table with 3/4 of the package signed and the borrower askes me where are all the payoffs? The LO informs us over the phone that a 4th email with the HUD had been sent. It turns out the one in the lenders docs was not current and the updated one had gone directly to my Delete Files folder. ALL the other emails went to my INBOX, so I don't have a clue why this one went to the DELETE File. Regardless, I hurried home to print it out, call the borrower on her cell as she requested, and had to leave a message. She did not return my call. In my haste I had left behind my Notarial Journal because the borrower refused to sign it before signing the papers and I set it aside for later. (Never again!)

I left another message profusely appologizing and even delivered the HUD for their review early Saturday morning. This morning I get a call from her adimately requesting that I leave no more messages and to not come by their house any more - she hangs up after informing me that the book I had left behind is not there and she has no clue what I am referring to.

I have left messages with the LO and the title person who arranged the signing as to my situation, imploring them to assist in recovering my journal. In the mean time I have no journal to record further notarizations.

This person is difficult to say the least. I have no idea what else I could do short of calling the police to retreive it for me. That is if she shooses to locate it. Does any one have any suggestions for me?

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 1/7/08 9:28am
Msg #229198

Since they told you to stop calling, I would call the police and ask them to go get it!

I'm not sure about FL, but in Massachsetts it's against the law to destroy, deface or conceal the records or official papers of a notary public (MGL c. 222 s. 10).

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 1/7/08 9:30am
Msg #229199

*Massachusetts (it's coffee time!!!) n/m

Reply by Joan_OH on 1/7/08 9:30am
Msg #229200

You have no choice but to ask title or lender to assist you in getting your journal back or you will have no choice but to call the police to help you get it back. You cannot call the borrower back after being told to not call or you could be charged with harrassment.

You've gotten yourself into a pickle, I would say. That's too bad. If nothing else, your message serves as a fair warning to others.

Joan-OH

Reply by CJ on 1/7/08 11:52am
Msg #229241

I am so sorry about all of this.

Missing email docs has happened to me before too. But usually the borrowers are kind and helpful. That makes all the difference.

I don't know what the exact law is, but their keeping the journal does sound like some kind of crime, like stealing. Why can't they just put it in a bag on the doorstep? (Becuase they are idiots.)

In the meantime, you need to get a new journal to keep your business going. My heart goes out to you. I will be praying for you.

Reply by CF on 1/7/08 12:05pm
Msg #229246

Re: I am so sorry about all of this.

I would go to the Police Station in person- explain the situation and get a Police escort to the house. Over the phone- can cause a lot of confusion. Get on-line print off any and all information you can about notarial record keeping and journal requirements. Take this with you to the Police Station...and go from there. WOW- people never cease to amaze you! Everyone makes mistakes- that is just life. This lady will get her rudeness back!!! She may have a very rude awakening- with a Police escort and filing of a small claims suite against her for your property!!!!!! I would go the distance on this one!!! Good luck!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 1/7/08 12:16pm
Msg #229252

Re: I am so sorry about all of this.

Florida does not require a journal, so there are no "laws" in Florida regarding the journal.

And unfortunately Shelly would have to prove that the borrower has her journal. It will be the borrowers word against hers.

Reply by Becca_FL on 1/7/08 12:23pm
Msg #229256

Re: I am so sorry about all of this.

Florida does not require the use of a journal and Florida does not have strict laws governing the safe keeping procedures as CA does.

The notary screwed up, but that is really no reason for the borrower to act in such a manner. If the TC and broker can't help, I think I would take a ride down to the Police station or Sheriff's Office and explain what happened and why it is important to secure the PRIVATE information maintained in the journal.

Reply by Julie/MI on 1/7/08 12:26pm
Msg #229262

That's a bad situation and even though FL isn't a journal state, it is a privacy violation for all the other's info that you may have in there.

For what's its' worth, I have had the same problem with outlook suddenly dumping stuff into my junkmail folder....but the hud is my first doc and I always have it on top.

Keep us posted.

Reply by Gary_CA on 1/7/08 12:38pm
Msg #229271

Maybe it's just my sleep depravation...

Storms got me without power so I spent a horrible night at a motel... poor poor me...

or maybe it's just how my weird mind works...

But the first thing you might do is triple check again 4 more times and make sure you don't have your journal someplace... I mean it was one of those nights... and maybe she doesn't have it ????

Yeah, one of the lessons learned is they sign your journal first. Period. End of story. And you don't notarize for folks that refuse you anything.

Some days are just like eating dirt... it'll get better.

Reply by Shelly_FL on 1/7/08 1:03pm
Msg #229276

Thank you everyone for all your thoughts and prayers. I have made contact with the title co. and they are understanding about the situation. Unfortuately, Mrs. Borrower told this person not to call her as well. I asked them if they could call Mr. Borrower at his work no., since he seemed like a very nice bloke and might be willing to cooperate. They also are going to contact the LO, but it is likely that he is on the outs too! I'm waiting to hear back before I take it any farther.

Keep you posted. Thanks!

Reply by Becca_FL on 1/7/08 1:10pm
Msg #229285

This just goes to show you why the first thing you should do when you sit down is give the borrowers the HUD. Put the HUD on the top of your stack and give it to them to review while you take down their info. It sounds to me that the borrowers were fine until they saw the fees. Am I correct?

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/7/08 1:36pm
Msg #229292

Even though a journal is not required in FL, the signer doesn't have to know this. I would tell her I was writing to the SOS of Florida that she is holding the journal hostage, that the journal was last at her home for a loan signing and I would also let this woman know I would call the police and have them meet me at her home to recover the journal. People don't like the police at their home because their neighbors are nosy and think the worst. When you call the non-emergency number, tell them you are requesting a "citizens assist" and explain the situation, highlighting the fact that the journal has private, sensitive information in it.

Get a Gmail account. It has tremendous memory and your emails won't go to junk/delete file folders by accident.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 1/7/08 1:50pm
Msg #229296

"Even though a journal is not required in FL, the signer doesn't have to know this"

How do we know the signer doesn't know this already.
I wouldn't tell a signer anything unless I was following through.

So, Shelly calls the police and they meet her at the signers home. The signer says that there was no journal left there and Shelly was mistaken. What then??? They are hardly likely to get a search warrant.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/7/08 2:00pm
Msg #229301

We don't know the signer doesn't already know this and I didn't say to tell the woman anything.

Did you read the part of my post where I said people don't like the police in front of their home due to it looking bad and the neighbors being nosy? Some may not care, but if the woman sees that Shelly won't let up, MAYBE she'll think this is more trouble than it's worth and turn over the journal.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 1/7/08 2:48pm
Msg #229309

I never worry about the police being outside my home. And, my neighbours, knowing me wouldn't worry either. Not everyone has nosy neighbours.

I doubt the police would even go out with Shelly on this. Of course the signer may complain about harrassment.

Reply by Howdy/LA on 1/7/08 2:59pm
Msg #229311

The police would go out as they have an obligation to do so to preserve the peace.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/7/08 3:02pm
Msg #229313

I used to be a police dispatcher. If ever one needs to retrieve something from someone and they believe going on their own would be a cause for concern (the situation would turn ugly) they can call the local PD, explain the situation and an officer would certainly go up to the front door with the person, to "keep the peace". No, the officer cannot search the house and make the woman come up with the journal. If the woman sees that Shelly will file a police report and get other agencies involved, just maybe she'll see that it's not worth it to keep the journal (if she has it). Or, maybe this woman likes a challenge and will take this as far as it can go.

The woman can claim harrassment all she wants. "Citizens assists" are routine and done all the time. Overall, I was just suggesting that Shelly *do something* because it's too important not to.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 1/7/08 3:59pm
Msg #229321

Find yourself a Uniformed Fireman. Worked for me one time

One time I bought a coat for my daughter. The zipper broke after 3 days. Took it back, exchanged it. Zipper again broke after a week. Took it back and wanted my money back. This store has a "store credit policy only". I was ticked. Walked out.
A couple days later my husband and I went to a funeral. He was dressed in his dress uniform as Fire Chief. On the way home, I asked him to go in with me to the store and try and get my money back. They gave it back to me with no questions asked. It was because I had a "Uniformed" guy with me.
So, find yourself a fireman, have him put his dress uniform on and walk up to the borrowers home and get that journal back.
Never know, might work. Anything is worth a try. Borrower sure isn't going to call the police on a fireman.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/7/08 4:06pm
Msg #229324

Great Tip!!! I just might try that.... n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 1/7/08 5:18pm
Msg #229342

Re: Find yourself a Uniformed Fireman. Worked for me one time

LOL I did that to renters whose 4 waterbeds were bowing the floors enough to jam up the doors. I sent them a letter telling them to remove the water beds by a certain date (safety reasons) and I would be there to inspect the premises with my attorney. I then took my boss (Restruant manager) in his blackest suit and whitest shirt in all his silver haired glory with me to inspect. I told him not to say a word and he complied.
Turns out none of these guys were the originals that rented the place.But they had the waterbeds gone!

Reply by kate_nortca on 1/7/08 6:33pm
Msg #229354

Shelly:

I don't know if you were able to resolve this situation or not yet. I hope you did. But since the phone seems to be taboo at this point you might consider one other angle. Do you have a lawyer? If so can HE/SHE call her without it bordering on harassment? Or send a letter? Just discussing in a non-accusatory way what the ramifications of a lost journal may be for you and Mrs. Borrower.

Let us know when you get this solved. I really feel for you.

Kate

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/7/08 10:35pm
Msg #229415

Hmmmm it's your property, why not just go and retrieve it with some backup? The police will back you up.

I had a situation a couple of years ago, where a friend of mine who went to a tupperware party left her purse at the location. The person refused to let her have it, so I made a couple of phone calls and got a couple of friends of mine, then called the local police and told them what we were doing. My friend went back and knocked on the door with me and 3 other big guys standing behind her. The police parked outside, but were not involved other than that. The purse was handed over with all the contents intact without any further incident.