Posted by Sylvia_FL on 1/10/08 10:33pm
Msg #230139
Future new drivers licenses
Interesting:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321925,00.html
| Reply by Stamper_WI on 1/10/08 10:55pm
Msg #230151
Interesting. It amazes me that the DMV accepts doc's for getting an ID that we cannot. As long as they are the buffer between me and the lawsuit.......
| Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/10/08 11:24pm
Msg #230164
You have to start somewhere
The typical 16 year old new driver does not possess any ID that would be acceptable to notaries in most states, so the DMV has to be able to accept ID documents that are not terribly rigorous.
I notice that California is making the way notaries ID signers more and more stringent, in ways that don't seem very well thought out. I wouldn't be surprised if the next session of the legislature manages to create a situation where you can't get one of the documents needed for a driver's license unless the request is notarized, and you can get the request notarized without a driver's license.
Of course, if you're a visitor to Oregon, you better know a notary, because foreign passports and other foreign IDs are no good there. We sure wouldn't want to let foreigners do things like sign contracts to import billions of dollars of goods into their country, would we?
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/11/08 1:02am
Msg #230176
Not exactly right, Gerry. I can use 2 credit cards, but not
a US passport (because it doesn't have a physical description. Not that credit cards do, mind you.
From the SOS site: http://www.sos.state.or.us/corporation/notary/currenttopics/acceptable_ID.htm
"Subject: Identification Documents 7/8/02
Did you know that you don't HAVE to have a driver's license when identifying the signer?
The signer can provide you with ONE piece of identification that is issued by the federal government or a state, county, municipal or other local government and containing the signer's photograph, signature and physical description and that is current. Examples include the Oregon ID card, Concealed Weapon's Permit or Military ID card.
**Please note that the current U.S. passports do not include the person's physical description. Check to make sure. Without a physical description, you'll need another piece of ID to verify identity.
Two current documents, each issued by an institution, a business entity, the federal government or a state, county, municipal or other local government and each containing the signer's signature may be used instead of the ONE piece of identification. Examples include a library card, employee identity card, or a group membership card.
If the notary is also an employee of a financial institution and the person to be identified is a customer of the financial institution, one of the two current documents required may be a signature card signed by the customer and held by the financial institution in connection with the financial institution's transactions with the customer.
The basic idea is that the signatures match up. A notary public compares the signature in the journal and the document to the signature(s) on the ID card(s), and so he or she has made a reasonable attempt to ascertain a connection between the signer of the document and the person appearing before the notary. The notary knows who the signer says he is and is relying upon reasonable evidence that he is indeed that person. Non-picture ID is satisfactory evidence, but that doesn't mean it is best evidence. The best evidence, while still not absolutely certain, is personal knowledge.
Can you deny a notarization if the signer does not provide you with a driver's license, but has the other two qualifying pieces of identification?
No. ORS 194.515(8)(b) states that if the signer can produce the two current documents that fulfill the requirements, the notary has satisfactory evidence of identification.
Notaries concerned about identity theft, fraud, and liability need to remember that they are not responsible for the intent of the signer. The notary is responsible for performing notary acts lawfully, and using reasonable care every time they notarize, which includes making sure the ID looks superficially correct: the picture matches, age seems reasonable, the card hasn't been tampered with, etc. The notary is not responsible for the validity of the ID; if the notary has no way of knowing if the ID is invalid, then the notary cannot be held responsible."
While our laws have various methods for making a reasonable effort to identify our citizens, it also recognizes the issue of fraud and gives the notary wide discretion.
The reason for the foreign passport limitation is:
"SUBJECT: Acceptance of Foreign Passports as "Identification Document" 7/30/03
We've been advised by our Deputy Attorney General that Oregon Notaries Public should not accept passports issued by foreign countries when identifying signers:
Similarly, ORS 194.515 (8) and (9) set out an exclusive list of "identification documents" a notary may rely on in verifying the identity of person. That list does not include, nor can it reasonably be construed to comprise, passports issued by foreign governments, even if the passport has been accepted or endorsed by a federal agency. And because the list is exclusive, the Secretary of State lacks authority to expand it through the rulemaking authority granted under ORS 194.335."
So, until the legislature changes the law, the agency has no authority to fix this problem.
What I do like, though, is the available list we can use, to back up common sense and obvious circumstances.
As far as a credible witness ID, nobody in Oregon knows me that well, but in a small town, I can sure see the principals meeting that burden.
| Reply by WDMD on 1/11/08 5:27am
Msg #230178
Re: Not exactly right, Gerry. I can use 2 credit cards, but not
"Notaries concerned about identity theft, fraud, and liability need to remember that they are not responsible for the intent of the signer. The notary is responsible for performing notary acts lawfully, and using reasonable care every time they notarize, which includes making sure the ID looks superficially correct: the picture matches, age seems reasonable, the card hasn't been tampered with, etc. The notary is not responsible for the validity of the ID; if the notary has no way of knowing if the ID is invalid, then the notary cannot be held responsible."
I really like this part of your post Susan. Looks like your state allows you to use your common sense and not have that held against you. My state gives very wide latitude as far as ID'ing someone goes. I wish my state would include a statement such as this in our handbook. I especially like the part about not being responsible for the intent of the signer. It's good to remember we are there to notarize, not investigate.
| Reply by Stamper_WI on 1/11/08 10:29am
Msg #230213
Re: You have to start somewhere
When I took my daughters down for their permits and licenses, My ID was required along with their birth certificate.
| Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/11/08 12:13pm
Msg #230235
Final REALID rules issued today by Dept. of Homeland Sec.
The final rules may be found at http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/laws/gc_1172765386179.shtm
| Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/11/08 12:29pm
Msg #230238
Apply for a passport today
My take from a quick reading of the final rules is that if you don't have a passport, you should apply for one today. Press reports indicate the new rules won't go into effect until December 31, 2007, but that isn't quite true. The rules go into effect May 11, 2008. States may apply for an extension until December 31, 2007.
Given the controversial nature of REALID, it's possible some states might not apply for the extension, in which case, people living in those states will need a passport to enter certain Federal buildings and board aircraft starting May 11 of this year. Considering the backlog for passports that was creating trouble last year, I'd apply today.
| Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/11/08 12:34pm
Msg #230239
OOPS: that's December 31, 2009, not 2007 n/m
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