Posted by SShoreDude on 1/17/08 11:25am
Msg #231044

Hope?

I got scheduled for a closing today, for later today. I got a call at one point saying it was "edocs." I said thats fine, I always print edocs. They said no, its a closing where brwr. would sign on computer.

I have seen posts in the past which make me feel a little nervous about the industry being automated, and us being phased out with edocs. But I am still needed for this closing tonite...is it possible we are not being phased out at all?

Just wondering what you all thought.

Brian

Reply by SReis on 1/17/08 11:28am
Msg #231045

This is the 1st I've heard that this wave has made its way to Mass. Interesting...

Reply by BobbiCT on 1/17/08 11:38am
Msg #231047

Curious about MA eSigning ALL documents ...

I have seen Stewart's eClosing where EVERYTHING is "signed" with a mouse click, even the notarizations; however, the notary must already be registered in Stewart's system. The notarization blocks are pre-prepared. When asked the audience was told if the notarization block is incorrect, call Stewart and the documents will be corrected "within minutes."

I am curious how this will work on the East coast with

1. Not-yet-too-old consumers like me who do NOT want to read 120 pages of loan documents on a PC and want a hard copy of EXACTLY what I signed.

2. Where as a notary public (only service is traveling to borrower to notarize documents) I can collect a maximum of $5 "per notarization" and 35 cents per mile. It wouldn't pay me to do these ... even if "the borrower has everything on their computer, which uses dial-up internet."

I can definately see this happening in-house at title insurance companies or attorneys who set up a "mortgage factory" system with a staff notary. That's where the profit margin is.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 1/17/08 11:50am
Msg #231048

I've never done a signing that way. Sounds interesting.

Please let us know how it goes.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 1/17/08 12:07pm
Msg #231049

Just a couple of questions

1. Is this being conducted in Mass.?
2. How will you notarize a document to their satisfaction?
3. If being conducted in Mass. how much can you make @ $1.25/notarization?

The reason I ask this is I have a sister in-law that lives around Ft. Devens and she says that if you follow the Governor's executive order you can't make any $. Is she reading this wrong?

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 1/17/08 12:11pm
Msg #231051

Small world... I live less then a mile from Devens

I live in Ayer and parts of former Ft. Devens belongs to Ayer.

Reply by SReis on 1/17/08 12:12pm
Msg #231052

Re: Just a couple of questions

Right about the cost per notarization but I assume this would still be much like a reg closing where he would still be expected to go over everything w/borrower & make sure they sign everything correctly, although electronically. Then again, I could be totally wrong. Pls let us know how is goes!!

Reply by BobbiCT on 1/17/08 1:00pm
Msg #231058

Non-attorney charging more ...

NOT to be argumentative, but the Connecticut Bar Association considers "go over everything w/borrower" stepping over the unauthorized practice of law line. They aren't happy with the "point & sign" theory or that attorneys not admitted to practice law in Connecticut are signing Connecticut title insurance policies. The Mass Executive Order and Real Estate Bar takes an even stronger stance.

I think charging more than the notarization fee with no other concrete services to back it up other than "went over the documents with the borrower" puts the notary in a very bad place if the borrower takes a complaint about the loan to an MA attorney and the borrower states "the notary went over the loan terms ..." SReis, you're in an excellent position as an attorney for this type of transaction. Until the first few make it past the Mass Real Estate Bar, I think charging for "signing agent" services may treading in really dangerous shark-infested waters.

Reply by SReis on 1/17/08 1:45pm
Msg #231062

Ma is an atty only state

As re: "going over docs" I am referring to what I would do in any normal signing, which is point out the interest rate, term, pymt, etc. NOT explaining every doc.

I think your argument is fatally flawed because this would mean that any notary that is a signing agent is not allowed to collect more than their stat req.

And just so you know, the person that started this thread IS a MA atty, as far as I am aware anyway.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 1/17/08 12:37pm
Msg #231054

Re: Just a couple of questions

You wrote: ". . . she says that if you follow the Governor's executive order you can't make any $."

If she is a notary public, then she has no choice but to follow the Executive Order. Failure to abide by it can result in losing a commission and/or criminal/civil charges.

Regardless of the Executive Order, Massachusetts law tells us how much we can charge.

Keep in mind, however, that the price given (up to $1.25) is for the notarial act ONLY. If I am traveling to you and offering additional services (in my case it would be advice through the attorney), then I can charge whatever I feel is appropriate -- travel, time, etc.

I know a couple of notaries who work at Shriver Job Corps. on Devens who notarize documents completely wrong!! They don't even use a venue or proper verbiage.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 1/17/08 12:48pm
Msg #231056

How are you going to notarize electronically?

The only way I assume to get the ink on the paper is to scan it back into the document.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/17/08 1:22pm
Msg #231059

Prediction: POA

I predict the signer will be asked to sign a paper power of attorney, and that someone at the title company will the deed of trust or mortgage on the signer's behalf. Before the attorney-in-fact signs anything, the signer will sign the documents that don't require notarization electronically.

Reply by dickb/wi on 1/17/08 1:39pm
Msg #231061

do you have an electronic......

seal......is it registered with sos??????....that is what we would need in wi......

Reply by SReis on 1/17/08 1:47pm
Msg #231063

Re: do you have an electronic......

Although this is not my original post, I just want to reiterate the fact that I have never heard of esignings in MASS yet, and am fairly certain that the SOS has not even discussed the possibility of electronic seals.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/17/08 2:09pm
Msg #231066

electronic seal / walking on thin ice

For states that have ignored electronic signing, one could presume that the federal ESIGN law authorizes notaries to perform their acts electronically, and use any digital signature the notary considers adequate. For states that have signed the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act, that law authorizes notaries to use digital signatures, but provides no details.

A notary that did this would be walking on thin ice, and better have a pair of ice picks in his/her collar.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 1/17/08 2:29pm
Msg #231070

Electronic notary seal info...

Here is what NNA has to say about ENS: http://www.nationalnotary.org/eNotarization/index.cfm?text=eNotEns

Note: Electronic notarization processes, procedures and systems are not yet established in every state. Electronic Notary Seals are not available in the following states: Alaska, Arkansas, Delaware, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Washington, and West Virginia.

There is information on their site on how to use it.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 1/17/08 2:44pm
Msg #231077

It seems to me the Commonwealth of MA

is pretty specific on notarizations and I don't see E Notariztions being offered.

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/notary.html

Reply by Gerry_VT on 1/17/08 3:19pm
Msg #231088

Re: It seems to me the Commonwealth of MA

Look at http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/110g-11.htm which says:

"Section 11. If a law requires a signature or record to be notarized, acknowledged, verified, or made under oath, the requirement is satisfied if the electronic signature of the person authorized to perform those acts, together with all other information required to be included by other applicable law, is attached to or logically associated with the signature or record. "

Of course, how that works together with all the other laws, executive orders, and court decisions, I have no idea.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/17/08 2:56pm
Msg #231080

I believe that this is e-signing as the NNA sees it and has

no bearing on the direction that the e-signatures act is actually going. It would apear that the NNA has bought into a specific commercial program that they are marketing to the exclusion of all others. Those who buy into this program may be doing so prematurely. A good read is the actual "Electronic Signatures In Global and National Commerce Act" I have a copy in portable document format if you'd like or you can Google it easily. I would not jump onto any specific hardware based program without reading this act.

Reply by desktopfull on 1/18/08 11:01am
Msg #231217

Would you send me a PM with the info, Thanks n/m