Posted by Karla/WA on 7/7/08 5:43pm
Msg #254369

Another phone call with lowball fees

I keep answering my phone and the question on the other end of the line is "are you available to do a signing..." My answer is always "yes"....then the next question...or the first one they should be asking is "what would you charge"? .......that's when the signing company will say....."thank you........we'll get back to you."

My minimum of $125 edoc fees to go 20 miles is not unreasonable.....I worked for Countrywide and charged $225 for a single loan...that was before they changed their policies. I cannot get out of my driveway for less than $100 and say that I can make a profit in this business. Is there an answer to this dilemma? Notaries who are accepting lower than this are selling themselves and all the rest of us up the river. At least I got a call today......yes, I was available, but they didn't want to pay my fee. Maybe being a mystery shopper is my next calling!

Reply by Calnotary on 7/7/08 6:07pm
Msg #254371

I doing one tonight and it's a countrywide loan docs going to the borrower. I charged them 100.00 and it shows in google maps .1 Miles-about 46 seconds to get there. I love those!

Reply by Karla/WA on 7/7/08 6:11pm
Msg #254372

Time is money and the further away from our house, the more we have to charge. I love those signings that are in the neighborhood!

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 7/7/08 9:03pm
Msg #254385

There are a lot of folks in my area accepting lowball fees. They probably have full time jobs and do this for extra pocket money.

Reply by Carole Breckbill on 7/8/08 11:21am
Msg #254424

That's still no excuse! If I have a choice to fill my pocket with $50 or $100 - guess which one I'll choose.... I never even put on nylons for a neighborhood signing at a lowball fee. Even though I don't have a "full time job" I value my time more than that!

Reply by PCasey/CO on 7/8/08 12:40pm
Msg #254432

Just think how much you can gloat when they call you back in a few days because the $50 notary they found messed up the documents. I'm doing the same thing here in Colorado, turning down signing after signing because the fees. I had one that called me about 3 months ago that wanted me to drive 4 hours one way in a snow storm to do a signing for under $200, told them they were nuts.

Reply by AndyinPA on 7/8/08 4:10pm
Msg #254461

A minimum of $125 to go 20 miles is a little unreasonable. Especially considering the market now. I'm not a notary, but I do work for a title company. And no, I'm not a high up executive pulling in $90,000 a year. I'm a scheduler and I'm the one who gets in trouble if my fees for the month are too high. What so many notaries need to understand is the people who are willing to work with the us on their fees are the ones who get all of the work.
For example, if I have your fee in my system at $75 and $25 for edocs and you tell me it's $125, chances are you're not going to be used. Especially when 9 times out of 10 there are at least 3 other notaries with lower fees begging for work. But if you work with me, and I you're reliable and dependable, I won't think twice about adding extra money on for a signing that's a little far away, or a signing that lasted a really long time. It's called networking. Maybe that's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth. And quoting how much the lender or the title company is getting paid is ridiculous considering the number of people that work on one file, and the notary is getting sometimes half of that. Let's not get greedy.

Reply by RickinVA on 7/8/08 4:51pm
Msg #254470

Re: Andy, my friend

Andy, while nI understand what you are trying to say, stop and think a minute. Most of us are not greedy! What we are are people trying to make a living, or trying to make pin money. What do YOU make per hour? Here is a very loose breakdown of a notary's OUTGO:
Gas for a 40 mile round trip.
Amoratization of a (singular) printer
Ditto for a computer
Ditto for a cell phone
Ditto for a place to put that stuff
Insurance
Memberships in web sites
Paper
Toner
Etc, etc.
In my case, it costs me one dollar for gas only, to drive 6 miles, so that's about 35 bucks.
I will spend an hour +/- at the norrowers, so that, idealy, is about 30 bucks.
I will spend an ½ hour on the phone with borrowers, SS or TC
I have 2 laser printers, one a dual tray, and a laser FAX (MFC) so thats $450 + to amortize
I have a cell and a calling plan at $150 for the phone and $40 a month for the plan
I have a phone with unlimited calling and DSL (required for this work $109 a month. Don't
need DSL or unlimited calling except for this work
Paper is about $3 bucks, average for a pkg
Toner is $30-140 a cart for perhap 20 packages (Guess)
Insurance is a bunch, but I probably would have it anyway, but I would not have 2 cars. (Amortize that for me.)
I might have a computer, and I don't deduct it, so it's still an expense
I'd like to make a little more that what I would make asking it the customer would like frys with that!
What did you say you make an hour? Vacation? Health and life insurance? emploers share of FICA?
What was that about greedy?
Think a little!

Rick

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 7/9/08 12:15am
Msg #254536

Andy, as a scheduler for a title company

what does it matter to you what the notary charges? Not being a notary, and therefore, not doing closings yourself, you have no idea, what is involved. It is not a job that just anyone can do well. Don't you understand that the NSA's are self-employed people running a business with many, many related costs? $125 is not unreasonable. It is not even remotely high where I come from. Last time I checked, the fees were paid by the borrower, not you. How could a line item that the borrower pays, affect your bottom line?
I would love to know what you mean, about your fees being too high for the month. Have you ever thought to ask the loan brokers, if their fees are really reasonable or necessary? Are you saying that all the people working on a closing, work strictly on commission, and all them working on a file have to split those fees, just like the tips in some restaurants? Do they use their own equipment, supply their own paper? etc... Aren't many of these people paid regular wages, in addition to any closing perks? What about the e-doc fee that escrow companies charge to the borrower... this is on top of what is paid to the notary who actually prints the docs? What is THAT all about?
All the high costs originate with the escrow and brokers, NOT the loan signing agent. Loan Signing Agents are a convenience for the borrower, who willingly pays for this service. Speaking of service, do you use signing services? How can you justify the high cost of using a signing service and charging the borrower for it, when you are in essence, hiring the SS to do something you can arrange just as easily, which for all intents and purposes is your job to do? I bet you won't answer that one.
Notaries are not the greedy ones, not by a long shot!

Reply by linda/ca on 7/9/08 2:35am
Msg #254541

Re: Andy, as a scheduler for a title company

Bravo! Sheila. "First in Class" response! Too bad he probably will not see this as his post was yesterday. This one was worth starting a new thread for "all" to see!

Reply by AndyinPA on 7/9/08 9:14am
Msg #254569

Re: Andy, as a scheduler for a title company

I actually did see that post, thank you.
I actually can and will answer Sheila's question. We rarely rarely use signing companies. The only time we do is if we can't locate someone ourselves, or if that notary isn't willing to fill out the necessary forms to work for our company. Or if we don't have time to recruit someone new (if it's a rush closing).
And while I have already admitted that I'm not a notary, I speak with hundreds of notaries a week. A lot of whom have completely reasonable fees and who are still doing ok for themselves, even considering the decline of the industry.
So since we've established that I'm not a notary, none of the people who responded to my post have ever worked in my position either. While you complain about the costs of the printers, computers, gas, etc... I don't make more money for making my commute when gas prices go up. You're not the one bracing yourself everytime your phone rings because you're afraid it's someone in HR calling to lay you off. I pay a lot of money for health insurance also. But I can admit that I chose to work here, much like you have chosen to become a notary public.
Do you honestly think it's just a free-for-all with fees and we're just being stingy when we can't pay you $125 to go 9 miles? When I mentioned our fees being monitored, I meant it literally. At the end of every month my boss emails a chart with our fees divided up by states. If one state is higher than the previous month, he sits us down and tries to help us figure out how it happened.
There are two sides to everything and it's a little offensive to read so many complaints when it's the people like me who stand up for you guys when the lender is quick to block you completely from doing their closing, or when the settlement officer wants you completely removed from our system for the slightest error, or even nor error at all. Even though you're upset with us measely schedulers, we're the ones who ultimately decide your fate when it comes to getting work.
I'm not accusing everyone of being greedy. I know that the cost of living is ridiculous now. I just want people to see the other end of the spectrum. I have such a good relationship with my notaries. I've even suggested that some raise their fee. I'll add extra on to a fee without them asking for it. It's very frustrating to read these forums. The only reason I do is to see what people are saying about the company I work for because I care how we're (and in turn I'm) perceived in this industry.

Reply by 9Lives/CA on 7/9/08 2:38pm
Msg #254622

Re: Andy

Andy,
I am a notary and have been for over 25 years. I am also a licensed broker. I understand both sides of this situation. The fees for notaries to stay in business has skyrocketed in the past few years, along with all the bogus requirements now in place. Due to the economic climate, I have had to take a regular job and am a notary for extra $$. If it weren't for the notaries, the loans would not get closed. Compare what companies are willing to pay notaries versus what the loan brokers earn, both the upfront and the fees on the back. They are the ones who are greedy. Are they willing to negotiate their fees? And the processors?

It's not worth my time to do a signing for less than $125. The price of gas in my town is currently $4.89/gallon. I will do a signing for less if I know the clients. I live in a small town. I will not take an assignment out of my town for less than $200. Time is money. Notaries spend alot of time to complete assignments. The time (and cost) to print the documents, the travel time (and cost), the time spent with the client, the time to fax back documents and get them shipped back. Do the math, just on those costs.

You mention that you have to worry about being out of a job any day. At least if that happens, you can collect unemployment. When notaries are out of work, there is no safety net. We sometimes have collection issues. How would you like to not get a paycheck for time and work you've already done? The bad payers also have to be factored into our costs. Not to mention the time and energy we spend trying to collect. This is not a personal attack on you or your company, so don't take it that way. We're all just out here trying to make a living.

Just like everything else, the higher costs are passed onto the consumers. They are paying for the convenience of having a notary come to their home at a time that's convenient for them. What's it worth to the customer if they have to take time off work and pay for the gas to go to the title or escrow company to do a signing? From an accounting standpoint, there is a difference in cost and price. Ask an accountant for an explanation if you don't know the difference.

I have always found you get what you pay for. If someone is willing to lowball their fee, are they the most competent? We should all be striving for outstanding customer service. If we are providing this, who should be complaining about how much to pay?

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 7/9/08 11:40pm
Msg #254721

Andy, More questions... lets have answers

Your original post started with "A minimum of $125 to go 20 miles is a little unreasonable, especially considering the market"...... and ended with "let's not get greedy". Yet in todays reply- you now equate a fee of $125 to go 9 miles with unreasonable. Which is it?
Why do you think fees should be lower?
"Considering the market" Yes, consider the market for a moment, this is exactly why fees should be higher. Business may have slowed to a crawl in some areas, but that does not change the fact that the cost of doing business continues to rise. Just because business has slowed down, doesn't mean fees should go down. Less business = less income. Llowering fees makes it much harder to make a profit. That is why so many NSA's have taken on paid jobs.
Today you again, brough up greed. You said "I'm not accusing everyone of being greedy". I sure would like to know who you think is being greedy?
You said "I don't make more money for making my commute, when gas prices go up", of course not, you are an employee, it doesn't even apply.
However, you and I, as consumers will pay higher prices in many categories, because the cost of fuel is so high... Been to the grocery store lately? All that food was driven there.
Do you know how much it costs to drive 40 miles round trip including, all costs, not just gas? Just one of the costs we bear in doing this business. Why is this important? Because convenience is not cheap, some one needs to pay for it, preferrably the borrower (who wants convenience). As a traveling notary, it has grown to be my biggest overall expense.
Ok- I get that your monthly fees are monitored, and divided up by state. How does it make sense to make comparisons by state? The cost of everything changes by location. How can fees in Mississippi be compared to California, when the cost of living is at opposite ends of the spectrum? Aren't the fees charged by each service provider, ( involved in the loan process) relative to what is normal and appropriate for their local market? High cost areas will reflect higher fees. It's simply economics.
Why is it, that you feel, $125 is a little unreasonable? Simply because there are notaries out there, willing to do it for a lot less? That may be true, but just like everything in life, you get what you pay for. If you want quality, you have to pay for it. When all is said and done, the borrower is the only one with a right to complain or question the fees- as he is paying for it.
p.s. I am happy to hear you do not use signing services on a regular basis. It is one cost, the borrower should not have to bear, as it really provides him NO benefit, whatsoever.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/10/08 12:03am
Msg #254725

Re: Andy, More questions... lets have answers

"You said "I don't make more money for making my commute, when gas prices go up"

When I do an assignment, I cannot carpool or use public transportation. I really must use my own vehicle. As an employee with set hours, you have greater transportation options.