Posted by Sharon Taylor on 7/24/08 4:13pm
Msg #256643

Got the ol' "something is better than nothing" comment

Just got a call from First Preference Signing in Denver, CO. Bryn Reid was very pleasant, but he would not go higher than $100 for an edocs assignment. (He did leave you a voicemail, Sallie, and said you're one of his "favorites".) The one thing he did say that I sighed at was the ol' "something is better than nothing" that we've all heard before.
I just resigned as a field rep for NCCI, a debtor tracking and site inspection company that I've always loved and worked with for over 3 years - fair pay and good people. BUT they changed their system in May so that assignments no longer come directly from NCCI starting in July. Instead they have a "middleman" company that has agreed to do all assignments for X fee. The middleman company then keeps X and pays the field rep X. The amount the middleman company is keeping is fair and reasonable, and they are also very nice people, so that is not my complaint.
The middleman company promised to give me all the work for my extended area if I would accept the lower fees, in some cases quite a bit lower. I wasn't happy but agreed to give it a try. After running the numbers for the 13 July assignments and calculating what I would have been paid under the direct-from-NCCI system and under the new middleman system, I determined that NCCI would have paid me $780 directly, but the new middleman owes me just $375 for the same exact amount of effort and expense (time, gas, phone, paperwork, etc.)
So much for the "we'll give you all the assignments in your area" and the "something is better than nothing" nonsense.
Worse, while preparing my invoice to submit for work done up to the time I resigned, I discovered on the middleman company's website that they are now paying field reps even less. Under their new payment system, I would have received just $195 for the same work that NCCI would have paid $780 for had they not gone to this new system.
As I emailed my contact at NCCI, "Many assignments in the mountainous rural countryside around me take 40 to 50 miles one-way and 1 to 1-1/2 hours driving time one-way. Would you travel 80 to 100 miles and 2 to 3 hours round trip plus 1/4 to 1/2 hour at the location plus another 1/4 to 1/2 hour entering the report for $15 or $20?????? Remember, gas is $4 per gallon, and my car gets 20 mpg. Remember also that the IRS will want it's share of that $15 or $20 in income taxes."
There are times when "Nothing is definitely better than Something". LOL

Reply by Gary_CA on 7/24/08 4:23pm
Msg #256648

Well, you have to make a decision.

Whenever contemplating a job below your costs or right at break even, ask yourself:

"Do I want to work my a$$ off and be dirt poor... or just watch TV Land reruns and be dirt poor?"


It's the biggest no-brainer in the history of mankind.

Reply by CF on 7/24/08 4:26pm
Msg #256649

I have to agree with this one! Many times "nothing is better than something" is the case in this and the field inspection business.

Just yesterday I got an email for a merchant inspection that pays $15.00 from a company that I do many for -with payment all over the board. This one would have been 97 miles round trip took over 2 hours to complete all for $15.00- the gas alone would be about $17.46- thank you- but NO!

Reply by rengel/CA on 7/24/08 4:57pm
Msg #256651

It is getting to the point of

why don't I just send you a check for $25 and not do the work? I'd lose less $$ that way

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 7/24/08 5:17pm
Msg #256653

Exactly right, rengel

NCCI is paying the middleman company just $35 for these assignments, and the middleman was keeping just $10 and passing $25 to the field rep. Compare that to the $35 (very local) to $60 (maybe 35 to 45 miles away) that NCCI was paying before when they were working directly with the field rep. NCCI gave you at least 3 days to do the assignment, a few days more if you asked for an extension (which I rarely did), and paid promptly. I could normally fit these around my notary assignment locations and/or errands, so it was good "extra" income. The new system has more rules, regulations and requirements than some of the worst babysitter SS companies, the pay is much worse, and the middleman company pays at the end of the following month for the previous month's assignments (or so they say). So you pay upfront for all that gas for your vehicle and won't get it back for a month to almost 2 months after you've spent your money. Then you still have to calculate other expenses and deduct those from the balance (fee minus gas cost)...and use what's left (if anything) to put gas in your car for the next round of assignments.
Nope, not me. One month was enough to provide the documentation that, as you said, I would be donating my time and gas and office expenses and expertise to NCCI and the middleman company. PT Barnum does not live at my house! (As he is supposed to have said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

Reply by Tony_FL on 7/24/08 7:52pm
Msg #256674

I had to do the same thing ...

I too was doing work for NCCI until they went to the "middleman" system. I tried it with him for about 4 weeks; and like you he promised VOLUME over price. Finally I too had to say, forget it. I can't afford to PAY someone in order to work for THEM. My "middleman" got upset over the fact that I would not take on an adjacent county (and he wanted me to cover the entire county), without wanting to give me a fee increase. Told him I could'nt do it and I quit.

I hope NCCI wakes up and realizes how much they are screwing themselves by using this middleman system. But until they do, I guess we are the ones to suffer.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 7/24/08 8:30pm
Msg #256678

Did you send an email or call or write to Vince Nixon, Tony?

Vince was the person I spoke with first when I started working with NCCI, so I sent him an email detailing why I was quitting and also attached an Excel spreadsheet showing the dramatic difference in pay between working directly with NCCI and working through a middleman. I haven't heard back from him. My next step will be to write a nice letter and CC it to several people at NCCI. Then I'll just forget they ever existed, unless they decide to go back to the old system.
They are only paying the middleman company $35, I understand, which doesn't leave much to pay the field rep if the middleman company is going to be able to pay its overhead.
The woman who is handling the area I covered along with a large portion of the state was a field rep for them, and she was talked into setting up a new company, setting up a website, and setting up an entire business system to handle the workload. Her husband and one other employee assist her. She is a super-nice lady, efficient, organized, and intelligent. How NCCI managed to sucker (ummm, excuse me...persuade) her into this, I don't know, but I do feel sorry for her. Not enough to go back to doing what would be essentially volunteer work for her and NCCI though. Sigh

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/24/08 9:29pm
Msg #256688

There are times when "Nothing is ... better than Something"

So very, very true, Sharon!! Your experience does a great job of illustrating a point that many don't get, especially if they come to this business with an employee mentality. It seems to me kind of like getting on a down escalator in the middle and trying to go up. You will burn up lots of energy, but eventually will likely end up farther down than when you started... Some might argue that they are strong enough to outrun it and make it to the top, but why not just find a different escalator? There's nearly always more than one way to get where you want to go... ;> I somehow doubt most of us got into this business just to get a workout!!

Reply by sue_pa on 7/24/08 10:06pm
Msg #256698

"middleman" concept

One of the things that amazes me when I read these boards are people saying that certain signing services are amazing, wonderful, meets my fee, and on and on .......

When rating clients, if you assign a value to your best clients of 20, a signing service should be lowered to 10 immediately (sorry, even you Sylvia) because they are taking a portion (sometimes huge and obscene, sometimes actually a fair fee) of the fee you would be getting directly. When there is a middleman, that increases the possibility of miscommunication by 2, if not more. It creates a lag time of delivery of documents (when the service posts them to their web site - no idea why they do this rather than just send the link). If you work for a service who insists you contact them rather than the person with the answers, whisper down the lane occurs ... sometimes ... sometimes the signing service never even poses your questions to the title company because they really don't care - they scheduled the appt. and that's the end.

I see postings daily on here and I scratch my head. Let's guess who the guy in RI is trying to get as a client for those modifications he asked about. I've figured it out ... maybe great marketing on his behalf or maybe this board divulged WAY too much info and he jumped. Some of us work direct and will continue to get direct work from this company. The others will now have another signing service to deal with.

Granted, there are a few title companies that will always use a service and quite a few of them treat their notaries fairly by paying an acceptable fee, paying on a set schedule, and keeping the communication open ... they still are taking a cut of the fees you could be earning directly which is why glowing accolades continue to amaze me ... semi-glowing applies in some cases but not the top of the line accolades for a signing service in my book.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/25/08 5:48am
Msg #256725

When the old "MortgageRamp" did this

I went to them and told them I would not do further inspections for less money. They told me to call them when I got one and they'd fix it and give it to me directly.

Keep giving NCCI feedback. It may work.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 7/25/08 6:52am
Msg #256730

Thanks for the info and advice, Brenda

I will keep on NCCI about the lousy and totally unfair new system. If enough experienced field reps quit and let NCCI know exactly why they are quitting, we may actually get someone to pay attention.
Their old system is still on the webpage, so whether they are going around the new system for some reps or not, I don't know, but it may be a possibility. Under the new system, you still go to their webpage but log using a different link with a new ID. I will be royally PO'ed if they are keeping some field reps on the old system while pushing the rest of us into this new low-paying system.
Oh, well. Not worth losing sleep over. Either they pay fairly and I take on assignments again, or they pay lousy and I forget about them. Life is too short to be taken advantage of!

Reply by Carmen Kravchuck on 8/21/08 10:48am
Msg #260993

Aren't you right on this one....Carmen