Posted by Negrete on 7/15/08 4:24pm
Msg #255264

My conversation with a Title Co.

I have spoken to a couple of Title Companies over the last couple of days and here is what one Escrow Officer told me about notary fees. Now whatever you do please don't lamblast me for telling you what a Large Title Company told me about the current market conditions.

And I quote.

" We will pay our notaries no more than $90.00 for a first mortgage with e-mail documents, if they tell us that they want more we tell them that they can sit around and wait a long time for another Title Company to call and offer them the $125.00 or more that they want or take our $90.00 and close a couple of loans a week or do nothing and not make a dime. There are to many notaries that are sitting around for us to pay more than $90.00 "

Now keep in mind this is a very large Title Company that I was soliciting for business that told me this. I had to tell them that I totally understood what they where talking about. I don't know if anyone will agree with this but, this is from the mouth of an Escrow Officer.

Anthony J Negrete
Negrete's Notary Service Inc.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 4:44pm
Msg #255269

We hear the same. I don't know where some people get their info on what a SS gets, but it is no where near the $200 some people think. We make short money but have high volume. The market has changed and will be this way at least for the next couple of years.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 5:10pm
Msg #255279

>>>We hear the same. I don't know where some people get their info on what a SS gets, but it is no where near the $200 some people think.<<<

This is why YOU are part of the low pay problem. SSs like yours that only charge TCs a typical NSA fee have created this monster. I may be doing fewer closings, but my per job average has not gone below what I feel is a fair and reasonable fee for the services I offer. NSA that take these pimped out jobs will soon realize they're making fast food wages. Just wait...when gas hits $5 per gallon how many low rent NSAs will be able to afford to buy a $10 ream of paper and drive 80 miles round trip for $90? Do the math people.

Reply by Negrete on 7/15/08 5:31pm
Msg #255283

Are you directing at me Becca ?

I chage as much as I can get Becca.

I am not sure if that comment is directed at me or the other fellow Becca.

Anthony J Negrete
Negrete's Notary Service Inc.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/15/08 5:36pm
Msg #255285

Re: Are you directing at me Becca ?

I believe that comment was responding to NNS post
(Becca quoted part of the post she was responding to)

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 5:41pm
Msg #255286

It was directed at the el cheapo N3 SS. n/m

Reply by Nomad/OR on 7/15/08 5:33pm
Msg #255284

TRUTH! It is actually cheaper for me to reject the low fee

and stay home than to go out and burn gas, time, paper, vehicle wear, babysitting, printer, internet fees, commissions, licenses, faxing, cell phones....

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 7:53pm
Msg #255302

First of all, I would never ask a notary to travel 80 miles for $90. Second of all, some people have put blinders on. Do you not see what is going on in the mortgage industry. I, like Anthony, talk to TC's all day long. They are being forced to reduce fees. If they show $200 for signing fee it might be to make up for a loss on another fee. Fees will not be what they were 2 last year for a long time. There are thousands of NSA's with years of experience doing $90 closings. Others are sitting home complaining on NotRot. I agree you are worth more, but it will only be getting worse in the near future. We find an NSA in a particular area that's good, and they get all the work. Plus they get paid in 2 weeks. Yes a SS gets a piece, a small one. However our costs are high also. Do not be mad at the SS, it is the market that is dictating.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/15/08 8:16pm
Msg #255305

*If they show $200 for signing fee it might be to make up for a loss on another fee. **

I assume you are talking about as shown on the HUD.

And, I believe charging one client/borrower for another's work to make up is against everything about the settlement statement...maybe even fraud?

Obviously, if you have been told this by "title companies" then you are talking to:
1) An unethical title company; and
2) A total dumb@$$ for saying such nonsense out loud...true or not.
3) Or, maybe someone who will lie to you to make you think that you are getting the entire fee.

Get real. That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 7/15/08 9:22pm
Msg #255314

Brenda, I'll second that in a heartbeat!

"Get real. That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard of!" No kidding!

and

"And, I believe charging one client/borrower for another's work to make up is against everything about the settlement statement...maybe even fraud?" Oh yeah!

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 10:19pm
Msg #255331

This dude is a MoMo-JackBag-DoucheNozel w/ no ethics n/m

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 7/16/08 12:36pm
Msg #255411

Re: This dude is a MoMo-JackBag-DoucheNozel w/ no ethics

the professionalism is overwelming Becca

im really surprised at how this thread has jolted so many
it is only one TC that said this.

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/15/08 11:46pm
Msg #255350

Exactly right Brenda! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/15/08 8:48pm
Msg #255309

You did today...

"First of all, I would never ask a notary to travel 80 miles for $90"

You offered me $90 to go what you thought was 5 miles...when I told you it was more like 15-20 miles from door to door - making rt 30-40 - and told you my fee you couldn't meet it. What I failed to tell you on the phone was to tack on another 30 mile rt to drop the package - so it's a 70 mile trip for $90 (shoot me for 10 miles)....no thanks.

My last four assignments have all been for title companies - all in excess of $150 each...and travel nowhere near 70 miles total...giving me more incentive to say "no" to lowball offers and SS's....

JMHO

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 9:09pm
Msg #255311

Re: You did today...

I am happy for you. I don't blame you one bit. But did you not have other closings today that you could drop all at once? Is there not a drop box in your town? Can't you schedule UPS or Fed-Ex to pick up from your home/office? It is nice to make $150 a closing but when you are only doing 1-2 per week, it just doesn't cut it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/15/08 9:11pm
Msg #255312

Re: You did today...

"Is there not a drop box in your town?" Not one I trust - it's a business practice that I drop the package at a manned facility - just call it good customer service.

"Can't you schedule UPS or Fed-Ex to pick up from your home/office?" Nope - they won't pick up from me.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 9:20pm
Msg #255313

Re: You did today...

That is excellent customer service and I commend you for it. But what about the other part of my question: Did you not have another closing or 2 or 3 that you could drop all off at once? Pleaqse don't take this the wrong way, I am definitely not upset that you could not do my closing., the next name on the list did it. I am only asking because maybe you have priced yourself too high to be getting work.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/15/08 9:23pm
Msg #255315

To answer your question - no...

All my packages were dropped after signings yesterday....they don't come home with me.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/15/08 9:31pm
Msg #255317

And I should add...respectfully

that any that I had earlier today that needed dropping off would have been dropped well prior to the 5:30 signing you wanted me for.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/16/08 12:17am
Msg #255355

Re: You did today...

Clearly she's priced herself too high to be getting work from you. But a better question might be why would you expect her to cover part of the cost of doing the assignment from a different one? Your question should be totally irrelevant. That's almost like expecting someone to cover the cost of printing the documents by doing it at their day job! ("Weren't you going to be using the printer anyway?" Just doesn't wash.

Everyone has their own point at which it's no longer worth it. Cash flow is one thing, but we should be in business to net out a profit, not break even so that someone else can get their bills paid. There ARE still plenty of title companies out there who still expect to pay a decent amount to get their packages signed correctly and promptly, etc. They just might not be the national entities that a signing service like yours would be interesting in marketing to. [I should add that I know nothing about you or your company, so this is not personal.]

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/15/08 11:55pm
Msg #255353

Re: You did today...

**It is nice to make $150 a closing but when you are only doing 1-2 per week, it just doesn't cut it.**

So it makes sense to you to put out more effort and expense to do more signings at your lower fee of $90.00 rather than 4 signings at $150.00? Let's see, 4 X $150.00 = $700.00

$700 / by your $90.00 = 7.78 trips round up to 8 for total of $720.00, I think Linda knows what she's talking about better than you do my friend. It's the leeches like you that suck the blood from this industry. Are you a stockholder in NNA?

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/16/08 8:32am
Msg #255378

Correction

Figures should be:


4signings X $150.00 = $600.00

$600 divided by your $90.00 = 6.67trips round up to 7 for total of $630.00

So three extra trips with all the expenses involved to make an extra $30.00 sure doesn't make any sense to me.

I really do know basic math, honest!

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 10:21pm
Msg #255332

Way to go, Linda! Nail that MoMo-JB-DN SS owner! High Five! n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 10:17pm
Msg #255329

I most definitely see what is going on in this industry and I do not have blinders on nor do I have rose colored glasses on. I have never focussed on marketing to SSs because I believe they are not necessary to achieve success in this business, quite contrary actually. SSs have ruined this business.

I have had many very good paying TC clients close their doors, I know many out of work EOs and I find this very, very sad, but thankfully, I have been able to procure new TC clients that understand I am much more than just a mobile notary closer. I sell my services, why I am better than the rest, how they will benefit by using my services and I prove it to them day in and day out. I am such a team player that I have started making sales calls with a TC marketing rep. so that the client knows who will be closing their loans and feels comfortable with me, the closer.

How exactly is a SS going to provide a service like that? What sets you apart from all the other SSs out their other than price? A business is not built on price alone. In many instances price has NOTHING to do with it, it's more about perceived value and until a SS owner comes along with an advertising/marketing background you will all keep cutting each other's throats until none of you are standing. SSs are simply not needed in this industry and have most definitely contributed to the fee slashing we are seeing now.

Are you proud of yourselves now? Are you proud of what your greed has done to this industry?

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 7/16/08 10:22am
Msg #255394

Don't the title companies get ANY blame for any of this? Aren't they the ones who created the SS industry in the first place by outsourcing their scheduling so they could cut back on costs?

Marlene
United States Notary Association
[e-mail address]

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/16/08 1:50am
Msg #255367

"Yes a SS gets a piece, a small one. However our costs are high also."

Really? Please elaborate on these high costs. We all know you can get flat rate unlimited long distance so it can't be the phone bills.

You said you're doing 1400 loans a month, if you make $25 per loan that would be $35,000 per month AFTER you've paid all your notaries. I know I"m not the only one dying to know how that $35K is being eaten up by expenses since all you do is sit at a desk and make phone calls all day.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/15/08 5:15pm
Msg #255281

When your expenses per assignment average $1 to $2 it is easy for you to justify the lower price per closing based on volume.

The same cannot be said for the notary who actually goes out and completes the assignment. Our costs, in overhead, materials, gas, etc. are much more per assignment, so your lower price / higher volume justification does not work for us.

Reply by davidK/CA on 7/15/08 5:59pm
Msg #255288

SS missing the big picture completely.

Regardless of how much the SS grosses, or how much the SS pays the NSA, the borrower still pays the $250 or more to the Title Co. The borrowers are the ones getting screwed, no mater how the fees are allocated or to whom.

Until everybody (Title, SS, NSA, Lender and Broker) gets their fee(s) listed separately on the HUD-1 it's going to continue to be slight of hand with the borrower's money.

Imagine buying a car and having the dealer charge you $500 for license fees, paying the state $250 and keeping the rest. I would come unglued and demand the extra money back, but under the current system the actual cost of the NSA services is a big con game pulled on the borrower, and the borrower has no idea that the one face they see isn't getting paid what the borrower thinks they are receiving.

NSA's need a line item on the HUD-1 all to themselves. Give the SS a line also. The borrower has a right to know the truth about those fees.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 7/15/08 4:46pm
Msg #255271

I am working with two companies that are paying $125 and they are keeping me busy. I hope this continues to be the case.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 4:48pm
Msg #255272

Did you happen to ask the EO if the TC they work for has reduced the salaries of its employees or if the TC has reduced their closing fees?

What I'm getting at here is that I don't mind taking a cut if the whole team agrees to take a cut. What irks me is that 99% of the time, the only player on the team having a fee cut shoved down their throat is the notary. They can stick that $90 closing up their butt, for all I care.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 7/15/08 4:49pm
Msg #255274

Right on, I am not seeing a reduction of fees on the HUD

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 4:49pm
Msg #255273

Re: My conversation with a Title Co. n/m

Reply by Maureen Lazar on 7/15/08 4:56pm
Msg #255275

Just an FYI on the loan I signed today on the hud was a fee for 75.00 for scan email docs. SO... if a company is paying a Notary 90.00 or so for edocs and Notary signing but pays someone in their office just for scanning to file 75.00 who's being undercut??? (That is not what my fee was today just an example )
I don't mind adding that I appreciate that staff at Negretes Notary

Reply by 9Lives/CA on 7/15/08 5:03pm
Msg #255276

They can say what they want, but just read the HUD and see what they're getting paid! I wouldn't mind a reduction if I was paid at the time of closing, just like they are.

Reply by SanDiegoCA on 7/15/08 5:14pm
Msg #255280

>here are to many notaries that are sitting around for us to pay more than $90.00 <

And, apparently, TOO many NEW notaries who know so little about business in general that they can justify working for too little to be profitable.

Until all those go out of business and disappear, this will be the case.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/15/08 5:59pm
Msg #255289


So Tony, what did they offer to pay you to handle the interstate closings for them?

Also in my opinion it's just a waste of time soliciting the big companies like LFC, First American, Land America, etc. They have the money to have their own 'internal' signing dept., and some of these are offering notaries $50. I wouldn’t look for these offers to increase anytime soon. The Title companies that are still in business have lain off many, and many more WILL be closing up shop soon. There is about half the business out there that there was, and I look for that to half again.
On the good side many notaries are now ‘part time’ and many more are just giving up. It will be more difficult to find someone in rural areas, and I fear more of your experienced and knowledgeable notaries will be doing something else in order to survive, so you may have to interview those that you haven’t used before.
I think you need to concentrate on the smaller, but aggressive Title Co’s that have like 100 interstate closings a month, but can't afford the payroll for 3-4 people to handle the signings. Remember every $100 you pay an employee costs you about $138, but i'm sure you know that. What about those time-share companies? I’ve done three for Hilton this month.

PS: Thanks for the timely check! I’ll happily work for you anytime! And thanks for trying to educate those notaries out there that are taking those $50 jobs. They hurt themselves, they hurt you, and they hurt other notaries.

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/15/08 6:08pm
Msg #255290

There are still plenty of title cos. that pay a fair fee.

Just because a few of the cheapos you spoke to say $90, doesn't mean the average fee or a fair fee is $90. Those of us who have been in the industry for a while know our worth, and so do the companies we work with. We all know the motivation for a SS to push the notion that we should be taking paltry fees. The more you push our fees down, the bigger the chunk for your service. Personally, what I'm hearing from title companies is more of them want to eliminate working with SS who take a middleman fee and drive up the costs for everyone. More and more they prefer to work directly with signing agents or with networks. Better communication by eliminating one extra layer and better control over the quality of the signing agent at their borrower's table.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/15/08 6:31pm
Msg #255293

Re: There are still plenty of title cos. that pay a fair fee.

There are many companies who pay fairly and understand that by dealing directly with the notary who is conducting the signing there are less errors in communication and therefore a better experience overall for all parties involved.

I continue to get calls from new clients every week. Many are telling me they prefer to choose the notary themselves rather than give the SS the task and ending up with an inexperienced notary due to the low fee offered by the SS. It is true that some TCs think they can get notaries to accept lower fees, but the ones I work for understand the value of experience and professionalism and are willing to pay a fee that gets them, and the borrower, the best service available.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/15/08 8:18pm
Msg #255306

Re: There are still plenty of title cos. that pay a fair fee

**Personally, what I'm hearing from title companies is more of them want to eliminate working with SS who take a middleman fee and drive up the costs for everyone. More and more they prefer to work directly with signing agents or with networks. Better communication by eliminating one extra layer and better control over the quality of the signing agent at their borrower's table.**

You too, Al? Awesome.

The message is finally getting through!

<big grin>

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 8:44pm
Msg #255308

Re: There are still plenty of title cos. that pay a fair fee

Some might, but others would rather have a single point of contact. They are eliminating jobs and do not want to pay overtime. TC's are going out of business left and right. To survive, they must cut costs everywhere.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 7/15/08 10:05pm
Msg #255326

Re: There are still plenty of title cos. that pay a fair fee

**TC's are going out of business left and right. To survive, they must cut costs everywhere.**

Cutting costs everywhere but the BOs pockets.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 10:26pm
Msg #255333

What makes you think a National Network might not have

one phone number with one answering service referring calls to NSAs all over the country? It's already happening statewide in some states.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 7/15/08 8:41pm
Msg #255307

Re: why does this not surprise me -- coming from a SS?

Believe it or not Tony, there are still TCs out there calling SAs direct and paying more than $125. As Becca said, signings are down, but many of us have not lowered ourselves to SS pimping fees. As also pointed out, the BOS are the ones in this picture getting the short end of the stick as their closing costs have not decreased one red cent in this mortgage fiasco.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 9:01pm
Msg #255310

El-Cheapo

I do have one question for all that have had bad words to say about my company. As I've stated before.I took over day to day in Jan. By the end of Feb, this company was running my way. I place a lot of controversial posts on this site. All that being said, have any of you read a bad post about NNS since?? I believe I am fair and pay extremely fast, 2 weeks from the signing. If NNS is so bad, don't you think the NSA's that actually work for us would have something bad to say. Currently we close 1400 loans per month. Some people must actually like working for us.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/15/08 9:33pm
Msg #255318

Re: El-Cheapo/1400 A MONTH!!????

Really? You wouldn't kid us? I wouldn't think you would have the time to post here!

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 7/15/08 9:55pm
Msg #255322

Re: Attn: NNS - why do you have such a guilty conscience?

I have never worked for you and NO WHERE in my post was I addressing you.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 10:03pm
Msg #255325

Re: Attn: NNS - why do you have such a guilty conscience?

This was not intended for you. I apologize. Your post was the newest one and I replied after reading. This post was for "The Gang". You know the same ones that always have nothing but negative things to write about all day. I know they read everything and I just wanted to make a point to all the other NSA's out there reading this junk everyday. You will not find a notary that has worked for me since the end of FReb that will say I am unfair or I am a slow payer. An NSA is hired by a SS, therefore the SS is responsible to pay them. I take this very personally. What good is getting jobs for $125-150 if you have to fight to get paid. If you get stiffed on 1 of 10, what does that bring your average fee to?

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 10:43pm
Msg #255336

You don't get stiffed when you are on the HUD...

but you know that already. I don't care how fast you pay IF you pay a fair fee and apparently, you do not. That's my opinion, I'm entitled to it and I'm entitled to share it.

Good luck with your el cheapo service. Write back when gas prices hit $5 per gallon and legal paper hits $75 per case. I'll be dying to know who is taking your $90 edoc deals driving 80 miles RT. As P.T. Barnum said, "there's are sucker born every minute"...and two con men to con them.

IMO, SS=Snow job. Good luck in your semi-new venture.

Reply by ZeeCA on 7/15/08 9:57pm
Msg #255323

Re: El-Cheapo OMG I am lmao ... Of course you can find NSAs

to work for cheap and allow you to pocket the money for what? making a phone call? oh wait you even are lazier than that... you post on Notary Rotary and get someone willing to work for free cuz oh gollygeewhiz you pay in two weeks.

the old saying if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then guess what? its a fricken duck

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 10:46pm
Msg #255337

The Notary National Signers - Quack, quack, Waddle, waddle n/m

Reply by rengel/CA on 7/15/08 10:18pm
Msg #255330

NNS - you may not have

any "bad" press here, but you don't need us to say anything against you, the way you have replied to the signing agents in this post disgusts me. You show nothing but distain for the SA's here, who by the way, are your bread a butter.
I'm not asking to be kissed on the a$$ or anything, but WOW you have been really rude to all of us here. Very disappointing.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 11:20pm
Msg #255340

Re: NNS - you may not have

Again, I apologize. These statements are not meant for all the NSA's, I really respect all of you. It was for the same notaries that do nothing but complain all day and have nothing constructive to say. When they can't make an arguement, they resort to name calling. Sorry, I was just tired of their attacks. I can't control what a TC charges a BO and neither can an NSA. So why does this arguement always come up.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/15/08 11:51pm
Msg #255351

Re: NNS - you may not have

>>>It was for the same notaries that do nothing but complain all day and have nothing constructive to say. When they can't make an arguement, they resort to name calling.<<<

Sorry, TNNS, I was working ALL DAY, but got in this evening to see your BS post. As for name calling...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...well, you know the rest.

You decided to buy or "take over" a notary pimping service in January of this year so at least own up to it and understand your position in the pecking order. In your posts, you suggest that you are are on our side. Please, explain to me and others here how offering $90 edoc closings and paying w/i two weeks is playing on our side. You see, I and many others here work for TCs directly, get $150-$250 per closing, we're on the HUD and we receive payment for our services via over night courier the day after the deal funds. Why exactly are you so wonderful? Am I missing something here?

Again, it is because of companies such as yours that NSAs are not only competing with other, local NSAs, but we now must compete with low ball SSs that don't have one clue about how to sell a service. They base their fees strictly on bottom line fees to "get the volume" and undercut the last scum bag SS that the TC used.

Networks are on the rise and title companies are listening...are you?

Reply by MW/VA on 7/15/08 9:39pm
Msg #255319

This turned into another ss co. brawl. Regardless of that, a tc that convinces you they can only pay $90 is ridiculous. Look at the HUD's--the tc's are generally making about $1,000 per closing & they make most of their money on title insurance. No one is charging the borrowers less in settlement costs. This is just plain b--- sh--!

Reply by goodgirl on 7/15/08 10:30pm
Msg #255334

Currently, I have TWO (2) signing services that owe me close to $300. I closed their loans, I babied their customers and borrowers, put up with both SS's BS, and everybody was happy - except me - because these TWO SSs didn't bother to pay the person who did all the work - ME. I am done - I will NEVER work for a SS again. From now on, when they call, I'm hanging up.
Tomorrow, I'm closing a small $15K HELOC. I've reviewed the docs, and the poor borrower is paying more than $6000 in interest over the course of this loan. WTF people!! The loan is only $15K and the lady is paying $6000 in interest!!
These lenders and TCs are STILL making THEIR MONEY!!! We are the ones who are supposed to beg and scrap and grovel to get work, and yet the TCs are still getting their same $500 to $600 fees (in this area) and IMHO, these lenders are STILL making risky, sub prime loans, and they're laughing all the way to the bank. Borrower doesn't pay - just foreclose on their house.
I also agree with whomever said that the cost for (most) SSs is $1 to $2. That's for the couple phone calls they make to find a notary stupid enough to take their cheap a$$ fees, as they are sitting in their living room or bedroom in shorts and bare feet watching their soap operas. And, those notaries are out there - there are plenty of them in my area.
The problem with TCs is that their executives still want to live "high on the hog" "in the style to which they have become accustomed" and to h@ll with everybody else.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 7/15/08 11:11pm
Msg #255339

I am really sorry that these SS's did not pay you. As I stated before, we take this very seriously. You will not find an NSA that can say I don't stick to my word. And our costs are not $1-2. We have a staff of 7 in the office, including an attorney to take care of problems at the table. We have advertising costs, integration costs, plus all the other normal costs of running a business. We take care of all aspects of the closing and only have to contact the TC if the LO must get involved. Please do not condemn all SS's because of the actions of a few. Research a company before working for them. I put my reputation on the line by making the statement that no notary can say we don't pay when we say we will. And no one has.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/16/08 1:00am
Msg #255361

There are quite a few of us here who don't paint all ss with the same brush. But there are a few things that you don't seem to be getting. When a tc tells you that they want to pay a low fee for the services of the people you hire (yes, THEIR services, not yours!), you have the choice to accept it or not.

<<...all the other normal costs of running a business...>>

So you should understand that we also have overhead that must be covered to stay in business.

<<We take care of all aspects of the closing...>>

Excuse me? I thought it was the notary that drove the miles to the borrowers' home, sat in their hot and sticky kitchens at their sometimes dirty tables while they read half the package; listened to the kids screaming; kept the pets from chewing their briefcase - or the papers; walked them through the loan particulars, showing them that the total monthly payment really IS what the LO said (or whatever); spent time on the phone with the LO, when necessary, while he tried to explain - or to resell the loan... and, we could all add a thing or two to this list!

I'd be interested to know what the average amount of time is invested per signing in your office. If you're doing 1400 signings per month and you have a total of 8 people (an assumption here, I added one more for you just in case...) that works out to somewhere around 40 signings per week, per person, including back office people (e.g. bookkeeper or whatever). I seriously doubt that it costs you an hour per signing! Compare that to the hours per assignment that a notary has to put in: add to the travel and table time, the prep time, wrap up and invoicing, shipping, etc. Plus all the other administrative time that it takes to keep a business running.

I can see where volume for you can overcome smaller profit margins. It just doesn't work the same for us, as others have said here, and I don't think it's realistic to expect that. Be my guest, if you want to hire those who don't know any better - but realize you get what you pay for. But if you want to hire well qualified notaries who know their business well, you should be prepared to negotiate fees with your clients that will allow you pay your notaries enough to make at least some profit.

I'm guessing that's why Tony posted what he did at the start of this thread. I think he gets this point!

Reply by Les_CO on 7/16/08 1:39am
Msg #255366

You make a good point Janet!

Volume just costs us more! The economics of volume rarely works in the personal service business. Four signings generally costs us four times the time, travel, printing and associated costs. We are financially better off to do one $125 signing than three $50 signings even though we make $25 less.

Signing Services do have costs, and I believe do have a place in this business, both for Notaries, and Title Companies. We as notaries damage ourselves more than anyone else (except the NNA). We can work for whom we choose, and charge what we want. You do not have to take that $50 job!

Just remember when reading these boards ‘Consider the Source’ We have a Guy here that posts several times a day, uses this board to try and find notaries, because of a lacking data base, and says he does a closing every ten minutes, eight hours a day, seven days a week, etc.. If he’s doing that kind of business he has neither the time nor the need to post here.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 7/16/08 12:32pm
Msg #255409

you had a good post on this thread

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/16/08 2:11am
Msg #255368

"We have a staff of 7 in the office, including an attorney to take care of problems at the table."

OK, I am calling bull$hit on this.

No signing service is going to foot the expense an attorney to sit around all day waiting for problems at the table, and no halfway decent attorney is going to take the pittance a signing service could pay compared to what he could be making anywhere else. If there's an attorney in the office I'm guessing it's more along the lines of someone's retired spouse who comes in to do the filing so they can alleviate boredom.

Besides, any decent signing agent is going to be able to take care of most of the problems that arise at the table. And the ones that they can't take care of wouldn't be taken care of by the signing service, they'd be taken care of by the lender or the title company, since most of those types of questions are "why" questions about some specific fee or aspect of their loan, that only the people who have been working on the loan throughout the entire process could answer.

And if you really are paying an attorney to take care of problems that you could easily direct to the TC or lender with a simple phone call, then you're the stupidest business person alive. That would be a monumental waste of resources that could and should be put to better use elsewhere.

And a staff of 7 to take care of 1400 signings a month? That breaks down to 200 per person per month, 50 per person per week, and 10 per person per day, and 48 minutes per signing. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that you are spending an average of 48 minutes on every signing that comes through your office.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/16/08 3:05am
Msg #255369

Leave it to Cali to cut through the cr@p! ;>) n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/16/08 7:34am
Msg #255373

I agree Cali - my take on this statement FWIW

and mind you I haven't had coffee yet...

"We have a staff of 7 in the office, including an attorney to take care of problems at the table.""

MHO is the "attorney in the office" (whether real or fictitious) is the way around attorney-only state situations. I tend to lean toward it being fictitious for two reasons -first because it's too expensive; and second and most important..WHY??...title companies typically ARE attorneys or have attorneys on staff...and THEY'RE in charge and have the last say on loan-related issues.

IMO "attorney in the office" is BS..

Reply by jba/fl on 7/16/08 7:41am
Msg #255374

Re: I agree Cali - my take on this statement FWIW

Perhaps it is an attorney in the office building....omitting one word can mean a lot of difference. Or someone one's child just graduated from law school and waiting to be hired? Or, retired atty. comes in for coffee, hangs around a while, therefore, in the office.

I don't care, not really.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/16/08 8:01am
Msg #255377

Re: I agree Cali - my take on this statement FWIW

"We have a staff of 7 in the office, including an attorney ..."

Does not denote someone in the office building or someone passing through.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/16/08 10:20am
Msg #255393

"Problems at the table" I wonder who would this Attorney would represent? The borrower/buyer/seller? The Notary? The Lender? The Title Company? Or the SS? If the SS what issues could they have "at the table" that would require an Attorney's input? It would be interesting to hear form some of the Attorneys that post here.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/16/08 10:52am
Msg #255400

Problems at the table: I agree Les

Most non-lender problems at the table can be solved with a competant NSA rather than a "staff attorney". The SS attorney can actually do what? Advise the NSA at the table that the interest rate and the APR are not the same thing? Advise the NSA that the escrow mentioned on the escrow approval doc are not referring to taxes and insurance, but that they are giving XXX TC the okey-dokey to handle the funds?
They certainly can't comment on the loan they really know nothing about, or the brw's,with whom they know nothing about.
In my humble opinion, the SS wouldn't NEED an att'y on staff to handle the only issues they could possibly handle, is to have an experienced, competant NSA at the table, by paying a fair fee, therefore eliminating that staff attorney's need, and salary.
Wouldn't it be financially prudent to handle it in that manner?

Reply by Jack Tri on 7/15/08 10:48pm
Msg #255338

If you have to travel 100 miles they will pay more.Couriers make money if they travel we are a courier and a notary.... gas prices 4-5 dollars.

Reply by sue_pa on 7/16/08 7:22am
Msg #255372

ONE MORE TIME

Why does anyone care about low ballers - companies (signing services, title companies or vendor management companies) or notaries? Some companies will only ever hire cheap and they will ALWAYS find someone to do the work. Some notaries will continue to work cheap and they will slowly disappear (to be replaced by another). No matter what any siging service tells you, there are companies still willing to pay decent fees. And National Notary guy, no, I am not talking about small local companies - an idea you always seem to throw out.

This National Notary guy seems to think payment in 2 weeks makes him sit next to God. I'm guessing he has that attitude because he does read these boards and the payment problems some have. What he fails to read is that people like me basically have no payment issues because we work for reputable title companies with a few reputable signing services thrown in. Of course reputable companies (title and signing) can go under and we have little recourse. On the whole, the payment problems are miniscule if someone looks at the entire picture. If payment issues were the norm rather than the exception, none of us would do this job. They are an issue because we, rightly so, moan, complain and seek guidance from our peers when we are stiffed or about to be stiffed.

I also am not sitting around (well, actually I am, we all are) waiting for work. Leaving for a 9:00 tee time shortly and then lunch at the country club - something that would have been beyond imagination a few years ago. This week I have 9 appointments scheduled (WAY down from the +/- 25 I used to do). My fee average for these 9 appts. is $153 - range is $120-$200. Longest drive distance is approx. 40 miles for one, everything else is much less (by the way, that 40 mile appt. isn't the highest paying one)

No comment about the 'staff' attorney which was discussed in a previous thread a few weeks ago.

"Volume" for us in the field is basically nonexistent any longer. "Volume" used to be 25 orders a month from one company. With those numbers, you could do all sorts of things for/with your client regarding fees, distance, services, etc. What kind of "volume" is this guy talking about? 3 or 4 a month for any one notary?

I work a completely different 'method' than many here seem to work. I will take lower paying jobs - if that specific job makes me money in the entire mix.

ONE MORE TIME. Ignore what anyone else says or does and find your own clients - clients who are willing to pay what you and they feel your services are worth.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/16/08 12:34pm
Msg #255410

I wonder if contractors do the same thing?

Do they have a message board somewhere where every day someone complains about their being undercut on their bids by an unlicensed illegal alien company or something?

This is how a free market society works. The problem is, too many people doing this job have an employee mentality (how many times have we seen people saying we should unionize on here? WTF?) and not a business owner's mentality. But this is what it means to run your own business, there's always going to be people out there willing to do the work way cheaper than you are. And there are going to be clients who aren't willing to pay what you charge. It was that way when the industry was booming, it's that way now that the industry is in the toilet, and it'll still be that way 5 years from now when the industry is however it is in 5 years.

If you can't handle it, don't own your own business. Some businesses have a limited shelf life (pog manufacturers, zoot suit salesmen, boy band members) and the most important business decision to make is knowing when to jump ship.

Reply by Joan_OH on 7/16/08 1:00pm
Msg #255415

AMEN!!! Sue & Cali

Perfect logical sense by people who obviously know what it means to be a business owners - and sucessful at it.

Joan-OH