Posted by John_NorCal on 7/8/08 2:20pm
Msg #254440

Some people should give up their commission.

I had to get something notarized for myself today. Since the document was going out of state I brought along a blank jurat. I went down to the local ReMax Realtor office and found someone to accomodate me. Phew! She looked at my jurat and was stymied, she didn't know the difference between a jurat and an acknowledgement. She started to fill out my jurat after I explained the difference but she entered her name after the line that states subscribed and sworn to ____________ by (should have been my name). She then explained that she hadn't taken a "test" on the new laws. Her commission is up next year so it isn't like she's brand new. If this was something that was to be recorded I would be upset, but since it's going to a private company in VA, all I'm doing is shaking my head and wondering what is the point of tests, and continuing education if some people can't do the simplest of tasks? Knowing the difference between a jurat and an acknowledgement is the most basic of notary work!

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/8/08 2:33pm
Msg #254443

I understand your point about not knowing the difference between an acknowledgment and a jurat, but don't understand what your issue is with how the jurat was filled out.

I would have filled in the blank with "before me, Teresa A. Burrell, Notary Public" and then filled in your name after "by."

Is that not what she did?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/8/08 3:33pm
Msg #254448

That's his point - the notary didn't know how to fill out

the blank jurat...

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/8/08 3:38pm
Msg #254450

I thought the point was she didn't know the difference

between the two certificates.

She did fill it in, but not how John expected it to be filled in. From John's description, it was not clear to me how she did fill it in. That's what I was questioning.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/8/08 3:40pm
Msg #254451

Maybe I read the post wrong Teresa...but either way

she shouldn't have been stymied..

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/8/08 4:01pm
Msg #254459

Agreed. She should have known how to fill out the cert. per

CA state law. *I* just didn't get what was incorrect about the way John described she actually filled it out. Maybe I misunderstood.

Reply by ZeeCA on 7/8/08 3:54pm
Msg #254455

Theresa:In Calif there is no wiggleroom how to fill them out n/m

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/8/08 4:23pm
Msg #254464

To Teresa and GA/Attny

**I would have filled in the blank with "before me, Teresa A. Burrell, Notary Public" and then filled in your name after "by." **

The wording on a California jurat is: Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me on this ___ day of _______ 20__ by (should be the name of the affiant, me) proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) who appeared before me.


___________________________ (notary seal)
Signature (notary)

She entered her name after "by"

The Virginia wording did not comply with Calif law at all which is why I brought my own jurat.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/8/08 5:25pm
Msg #254480

Thanks for the clarification

Florida is not as strict about the wording on our certificates, so my method would have worked here.

I did not understand from your original post that she filled her name in after "by" instead of your name. That's wrong no matter what state you're in. Just last week I had to cross out the "by" when it appeared on the notary signature line like this:

Subscribed and sworn to before me on July 3, 2008



by
--------------------------------------------------------------
Signature (Notary)


I inserted "by (affiant's name) after the date on the certificate and then used my handy dandy Notary Rotary ID stamp to indicate how I had identified the signer.

So many times the certificates sent in the loan packages do not have correct wording or leave out some important requirements. You would think the lender software could be written to account for the differences from state to state, but that is obviously asking too much.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/9/08 10:44am
Msg #254578

Re: Thanks for the clarification

"handy dandy Notary Rotary ID stamp to indicate how I had identified the signer."

I love that stamp It should be a required "tool" for all notaries who have to put the form of ID on the certificates.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/9/08 1:27pm
Msg #254604

Never even knew they had those...gonna go check

it out....sounds ideal!!

FL notaries will understand this - I might custom order one for those times when the doc is "subscribed and sworn to/acknowledged before me by John D. Doe, who represented to me that he took title as..." - boy do I get tired of writing that out!!

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/9/08 8:39pm
Msg #254694

Sylvia: I love that stamp too!

Much easier and neater than writing the info on the document, although sometimes it is a challenge to find an appropriate spot to place the stamp.

Reply by GA/Atty on 7/8/08 3:31pm
Msg #254447

What is the connection between the fact that the document

was going out of state and your bringing a blank jurat?

I understand the main point about her lack of knowledge, but I am missing something as to why you brought that along?

Reply by MW/VA on 7/8/08 3:57pm
Msg #254456

Re: What is the connection between the fact that the document

Yes, I've always been told choosing which certificate (or notary wording) to use is UPL.
I'm not making excuses for her. CA requires a class for notaries, right? I've known a lot of notaries who are so because of employment. They don't have the hands on knowledge that we have, because they aren't doing much notary work.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 7/8/08 4:04pm
Msg #254460

MW/VA - John was having his signature notarized, so he chose

the certificate to be used.

Reply by Cam/CA on 7/8/08 4:17pm
Msg #254463

Re:In CA notary Public does not write their name on a Jurat,

we fill in the date and persons name, sign and stamp. On acks we write our names. John was saying that she wrote her name on the Jurat.

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/8/08 4:25pm
Msg #254465

Cam please see my post to Teresa & GA/Attny above n/m

Reply by Carmen/123 on 7/8/08 11:42pm
Msg #254529

Re: Cam please see my post to Teresa & GA/Attny above

John just curious; why did you feel the need to use a different certificate. California notary law specifically states that you could have used the one that was attached to the doc as long as it wasn't being recorded or being filed her in California. (Pg 15 of the notary handbook addresses this)

.
Carmen

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/9/08 8:03am
Msg #254563

Re: Cam please see my post to Teresa & GA/Attny above

The wording that was used was stating capacity of signer.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/9/08 9:01am
Msg #254567

John...

Sometimes when you make a post when you think it is crystal clear it can sure take off on a tangent with second guesses, etc.

I never even guessed for a split second that you weren't spot on.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/8/08 4:37pm
Msg #254467

Re: What is the connection between the fact that the document

We don't chose the certificates - however John was having his signature on a document notarized and so he could select which certificate he needed.

But as far as the wording on a certificate is concerned, it is not UPL to make sure the wording on the certificate is correct for the state you are notarizing in, and to change it if it isn't.

Reply by Therese on 7/8/08 7:43pm
Msg #254498

Re: What is the connection between the fact that the document

I believe it was stated that the Jurat wording for VA didn't comply with CA/Notary Law therefoe we have to use the CA Jurat. Below was taken directly from the handbook;

Any jurat taken within this state shall be in the following form:

State of California
County of ________________
Subscribed and sworn to (or affi rmed) before me on this _____ day of _______, 20__,
by _______________________, proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be
the person(s) who appeared before me.
NOTARY PUBLIC SIGNATURE NOTARY PUBLIC SEAL

The Jurat is not like the ACK where we can use another states(as long as it meets are requirments) when taken in CA it must comply to the wording above.

Reply by Therese on 7/8/08 7:45pm
Msg #254499

Re: Just Curious

Did she administered the oath or affirmation. I have found many many notaries that do not comply with this requirement as well. It's a felony not too in CA.

Reply by JoannVA on 7/8/08 10:59pm
Msg #254522

Realize if it's a paper that will be recorded, the state law in virginia requires the signature to be on the same page as the jurat. they no longer accept "attachments" in Va as of July 2007.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/9/08 7:35am
Msg #254554

Re: JoannVA, that just got changed as of July 1, 2008

We can once again use a separate notary certificate, however only with the stipulation that the signer's name appears in the notary certificate. Of course, the SOC did not send this info to all the VA commissioned notaries, so unless we happened to look for updates on the SOC's website or heard about it on a chat forum, we would not know! Here's the link:

http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/OfficialDocuments/Notary/2008ChangesVANotaryLaw.pdf

Also new as of July 1, 2008, a photographically reproducible seal is now a requirement, not just a suggestion. That's a fairly important piece of information that definitely should have been mailed to each commissioned notary.

Reply by RickinVA on 7/9/08 7:41am
Msg #254558

Re: JoannVA, that just got changed as of July 1, 2008

Ya beat me Linda!

Rick

Reply by RickinVA on 7/9/08 7:37am
Msg #254555

Attn: Joann Some people should give up their commission.

Joann, that was rescinded, effective 7/1/09. (And after I bought a stamp for that purpose!)

Rick

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/9/08 7:44am
Msg #254559

Re: Attn: Joann Some people should give up their commission.

Oh yeah me too, I spent $75+ on Ack, Jurat, and Copy Certification stamps! Very frustrating that this state can't seem to get itself together regarding notary stuff. Many other things need changing, but our legislators were only concerned with the certificate being on the same page being an inconvenience.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 7/9/08 10:16am
Msg #254574

Re: That's a common problem with legislation. . .

. . .the legislators and sponsors don't think it all the way through.

Reply by JoannVA on 9/17/09 10:50pm
Msg #304222

Re: That's a common problem with legislation. . .

Thanks for the update _ I learned it a little late : )