Posted by Bev/NC on 7/19/08 1:28pm
Msg #255949

Title Recording

Hello everyone! Fri. I changed banks and during the process was asked if a SA could record titles. Being new, I was not sure. She (bank) would love to rid of atty's cost and use me to do the service. Can you do this as a SA or do you need some training or certification, etc. If so, anyone do this and what do you charge for this? Thank you for all the feedback. Very much appreciated. Thanx, Bev

Reply by Oz/Fl on 7/19/08 1:32pm
Msg #255952

You can take the paerwork down to the Clerk Of Court and record the title. I have recorded many items at the clerks office. It does not take any special training. You will take the paperwork down there to record it. You will have to pay the doc stamps and recording fees. You then get a recorded copy back to mail back to the company. You can charge your normal closing fee because it takes about an hour depending on where you live and how busy they are at the court house.

Reply by Bev/NC on 7/19/08 1:40pm
Msg #255957

Oh thank you, I thought it would be great to have this to add while slow. The bank was very interested and wants to do all they can to save money. She is tired of paying their (atty)fees. My husband was saying how atty's were in tight with court house and I couldn't get my foot in the door. He thinks he is Mr. I know everything, at times. That bank will use me everytime and the courthouse is only 11 miles from me. I thought it to be another way to fill the void of signings. Plus I thought it would be more profitable.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/08 3:06pm
Msg #255972

**It does not take any special training. **

Hmmm...that may or may not be true.

Read Linda's post. A prudent mortgage or deed of trust recording would include a bring down search of the index and/or tax/judgment lien/civil records depending on the lender's requirements. It's always possible another lien has been filed against the property.

**You then get a recorded copy back to mail back to the company.**

Not always a recorded "copy".

The recording usually doesn't happen instantly, however, you can get a file stamped copy showing the acceptance of the document and its time and date of filing.

The clerk will generally keep and record the document and then send the recorded original back to the Lender with a Volume and Page number...or clerk's number stamped on it.

The attorney may be doing a search in addition to making a trip to the courthouse. Bev should find out exactly the requirements.

The lady Bev spoke with may not know what all has been the duties of the attorney involved.

I hope LisaNC reads and responds to this.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/19/08 5:24pm
Msg #255986

Brenda is right. You never record a mortgage without doing a bring down before recording it. A bring down is a short title search for the period covering the date between which the title was last searched for the closing (could be several days or several weeks before the closing date) to the minute of the recording date.

The reason for this is that the lender wants a first place priority in the event of default and foreclosure. The purpose of the bring down is to assure that no intervening liens or mortgages were recorded between the time of the last search and the recording date which would result in the loss of the lender's priority.

In Connecticut the lenders will not allow the mortgage to be recorded if there are any intervening liens or mortgages. In addition to recording the mortgage you should be doing the bring down to update the title search.

Do not attempt to do the bring down if you are not an insured title abstractor. Do not do the recording unless a bring down has been performed by a title abstractor.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/08 5:33pm
Msg #255987

Kevin..you know with the remote closings we do

the bringdowns never get done...when I worked in CT, my boss always did them, or had them done, but with the signings we do most companies mail the recording away to the proper recorder. I'd be willing to bet they don't even know what a bringdown is..like I said, IMO it's really risky...

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/08 6:12pm
Msg #255992

Thanks Kevin. I guess Ga. is different than Tx or Ct. n/m

Reply by GA/Atty on 7/19/08 7:18pm
Msg #256001

I have never heard of updating after disbursement.

Many recordings are done via mail with no opportunity for an update, and besides, even if there were an intervening lien, the lender would still need their mortgage recorded.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/19/08 7:35pm
Msg #256005

In NC you must record DT prior to disbursement. n/m

Reply by GA/Atty on 7/19/08 7:55pm
Msg #256010

K that makes sense. I was wondering why NC attorneys

would get paid an additional fee for recording the deeds. And that certainly explains why.

Here the disbursement occurs the day after the RTC expires. So the recording is done afterwards in almost every case.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/08 8:00pm
Msg #256012

Lisa...now I'm curious....how does that work in the

event of a purchase? Seller's funds held in escrow until recording? Just curious...

Reply by NCLisa on 7/19/08 9:33pm
Msg #256018

We are a table funding/closing state so

when we leave the closing table, and we've recieved loan funds and a funding number, then we record. Most of the time, it is recorded the same day. If it is late in the afternoon, then sometimes it is recorded the next day. Another problem is some counties require you to take the deed to the tax office first to be "stamped" prior to recording in the ROD's office, and sometimes the tax and ROD's offices are miles apart.

Most out of state TC's quit trying to do purchases in this state almost before they began. It's about the only business real estate attorneys still have here. With the market so dead, most real estate attorneys have nothing to do.

I actually prefer the CA escrow way, it is so much more streamlined, and the title is so much cleaner. We won't even go into the nasty title problems we have in this state!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/08 9:34pm
Msg #256019

Thanks, Lisa..:) n/m

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/20/08 5:30am
Msg #256041

Re: I have never heard of updating after disbursement.

Please refer to my response to your later post in this thread.

Reply by GA/Atty on 7/19/08 7:12pm
Msg #255999

Why wouldn't they still want their mortgage recorded?

They have already disbursed the funds & they need to record their lien, even if it isn't in first place. That's part of what their title insurance policy is for.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/19/08 7:36pm
Msg #256007

Re: Why wouldn't they still want their mortgage recorded?

The NC attorney cert the final title opinion must show that title was updated immediately prior to recording the DT or a title policy will not be issued.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/20/08 5:09am
Msg #256040

Re: Why wouldn't they still want their mortgage recorded?

I am also a title insurance agent. In Connecticut only attorneys are permitted to issue title insurance commitments and final policies. The initial title search discloses problems that need to be released at the closing table or before. Those problem areas appear in the commitment as exceptions to coverage, and will remain in the final policy if not released. One of the standard exceptions are inchoate liens not yet perfected. The title insurance carrier relies on that exception to coverage in order to deny coverage under the policy for an intervening inchoate lien. The lender would not be covered for the intervening liens.

The bring down discloses encumbrances to title that have arisen since the last title search such as the above mentioned inchoate liens. I have never recorded a mortgage in which a bring down of title was not requested. In the few instances in which intervening liens were discovered, the lenders refused to record until the intervening liens were released. This could be accomplished in a number of different ways. If the mortgage provides for it... the lender might pay the lien to have it released and to protect its priority, and have the expenses added to the mortgage.

Otherwise the lender is protected under the note. As an alternative to foreclosure the lender can seek money damages by suing on the note. In states such as Connecticut the damages can be secured through a pre judgment remedy such as attachment of the borrower's other unencumbered real estate or garnishment of a bank account or accounts receivable held by his/her clients.

Reply by BobbiCT on 7/20/08 8:04pm
Msg #256065

Nicely said, Kevin. To add ...

I used to work at a law firm where part of my job was to "beat" other creditors or the recording of a mortgage deed by a bank to the Land Records. Client creditor owed unsecured money, got whiff of a rumor of sale, bigger bucks refinance or property owner/business in financial trouble, off I raced to get our lien on first or in a good position before the fall. CT is a "first in time, first in line" recording state; which is why that bring down right through the documents sitting on the Town Clerk's desk that haven't been entered into the index yet is so very important. Five minutes too late, too ignorant to ask "is there anything not entered in the day book yet?" could put your client behind the sale of the property, another mortgage, or big ugly IRS lien .... and the lender who just handed over the $$$$ doesn't know it until it's too late.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/19/08 6:51pm
Msg #255994

"Read Linda's post. A prudent mortgage or deed of trust recording would include a bring down search of the index and/or tax/judgment lien/civil records depending on the lender's requirements. It's always possible another lien has been filed against the property."

That depends on the state you're in, and local custom as well. In this part of NY, a title closer gets a continuation of title at the closing table by making a phone call to verify that no other liens have been recorded; the bring down is done before the close rather than after. At that point, recording the mortgage could be a mail-away.

Every state is different - what works here in NY may not fly in TX, CA, or anywhere else. I think the original poster needs to verify what the requirements are in HER state, and not worry too much about what others out-of-state are telling her because that's just going to confuse the issue.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/08 7:12pm
Msg #255998

**I think the original poster needs to verify what the requirements are in HER state**

I thought the lender had a big say in the requirements of a bring down...no matter what state they were in.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/19/08 7:43pm
Msg #256008

"I thought the lender had a big say in the requirements of a bring down...no matter what state they were in."

My experience tells me that's not the case here - the bring down is done on the day of closing, and the title closer gets a continuation of title from his office at the closing table. Once he gets the official okey-dokey, the purchase can close. The mortgage will record at some point after that, maybe a month or more later.

Again, that's how it's done in this part of NY - your mileage may vary...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/08 1:47pm
Msg #255960

Not sure what's involved up there - the attorney may be doing a "bringdown" before he records - running the title from the date of the search to the day of recording the new instrument to be sure nothing new has popped up in the interim that would go prior in right to what he's recording - that may be why they pay a higher than normal fee for the attorney to do it. If that's what's expected of you, that can get very involved (training wise) because you'd have to have some knowledge of title abstracting...

On the other hand, if they're happy recording without doing the bringdown (which IMO is risky) and you're just handing docs over for recording, then it's easy...quick in and out provided there's no long line at the recorder's office...maybe have to pick up a receipt to prove the doc recorded...or maybe a stamped copy of the document (the original usually stays with the recorder until it's indexed). I'd base a fee for that on travel and low end estimate of time involved...JMHO

Reply by Les_CO on 7/19/08 3:38pm
Msg #255973

I'd be careful here. First of all as you say your 'new' and apparently have no idea what the bank needs. If it's just a 'runner' you can do it. If it's more involved, learn what to do or leave it. There can be some very expensive libality involved.

Reply by Bev/NC on 7/19/08 4:13pm
Msg #255979

Thank you all for the info. I will be speaking with the bank on Mon. and find out all the details and duties. I will go from there. I do greatly appreciate the advise. Also wanted to say that bus. is going well and I have had numerous emails of appreciation for the professional and accurate job I am doing. I truly love doing this and am looking forward to growing any and all ways I can. Look forward to typing to you all again.

Reply by GA/Atty on 7/19/08 4:16pm
Msg #255980

My 2 cents

This sounds like they just want you to record docs for them.

Whether or not there has been any "gap" liens filed should not effect the lender's desire to get their lien recorded.

Most title companies that many of us close for do their recording by mail. There is no "date down" or anything like that that is directly related to the recording of the new lien itself.

In some jurisdictions there are particular forms that must be completed and delivered with the document you are recording, and many jurisdictions require a tax be paid on mortgages when they are filed, and then there are the recording fees themselves. I expect it would just be a matter of bringing the docs down there with the required checks and forms, if any, and then invoicing for the service.


Also - make sure they are not really talking about registering title. The term recording title is one I have not heard before, and they may be referring to a more complex process (registering title) that has nothing to do with signing agents.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/19/08 4:34pm
Msg #255982

I might suggest you do a little more homework on what is required to record a title for the various counties. I say this, because here in VA some of the cities require a "cover sheet", which has to be prepared by a particular co. (charge to subscribe to this co's. services).
Virginia Beach for instance, does not require the "cover sheet"; while Norfolk, Chesapeake do.
Also, the most we can do is be a runner. The Clerk's office doesn't record the title while you wait, and you can't get any sort of documentation that the Deed has been recorded. You can, of course, wait around all day if you have to have that documentation. I'm thinking that I read somewhere that at least one county in NC is doing e-recordings. Just a little info.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/19/08 5:48pm
Msg #255988

It is not recording titles, it is recording mortgages.

Which is done at the County Register of Deeds office in NC. Most banks require a title search, and if that was done, you would update from the date of the current title search, to the day of recording. You need to know how to update both on the ROD's indexing system, which is completely different from county to county, and be able to use the VTAC computers from the clerk of courts office (sometimes the ROD has a couple of those in their office too) and update liens, judgements, civil actions and special proceedings.

If they are asking you to certify the title, no, that can not be done. While you may do the actual title search, only a licensed NC Attorney can certify title and/or provide a title opinion. If the lender does not require title insurance on the loan, but wants a title search, that can be done, but 100% of the liability would fall on you if there were a problem with the search, and abstractor liability insurance starts at about $2700 a year right now.

Title abstracting is an art, and unless you've had years of experience doing it under the supervision of a very experienced abstractor, paralegal or attorney, don't do it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/08 5:54pm
Msg #255989

If I may I'd like to add one thing to what Lisa said...

"Title abstracting is an art, and unless you've had years of experience doing it under the supervision of a very experienced abstractor, paralegal or attorney, don't do it. "

and DON'T google and believe what you read that you can learn this online in 5 weeks!! You can't....there's no way you can learn all that's involved in five weeks ... JMHO

Reply by NCLisa on 7/19/08 6:04pm
Msg #255990

Re: If I may I'd like to add one thing to what Lisa said...

You are so right. I've been doing it for 20 years, and my business partner has too. Every week, we come across something in a search, and we brainstorm for 2 to 3 hours about it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/08 6:08pm
Msg #255991

I just added that because I've received several e-mails

about those 5-week courses and know just enough to know that's a crock...about all you can learn in 5 weeks is enough to create future problems!!

Reply by Bev/NC on 7/19/08 8:57pm
Msg #256016

Re: I just added that because I've received several e-mails

Again, thank you all and I will talk with the bank on Mon. to find out EXACTLY what they need and let you guys know. A big Thanks to you Lisa. I don't wont to get in over my head. I love to learn but will only do what I am confindent and sure of. Talk with you guys on Monday.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/20/08 8:03am
Msg #256046

Bev/NC

**Can you do this as a SA or do you need some training or certification, etc. **

In your original post you asked this question. I don't think anyone addressed that you don't need to be an SA to do it. One has nothing to do with the other.

Reply by SharonMN on 7/21/08 9:12pm
Msg #256203

Recording

Check into whether your local courier service does this. If they do, chances are pretty good you can do it, too, because those courier guys don't normally have any special training. Just make sure it's clearly stated what your duties are limited to so there's no misunderstanding.

There are a number of services offered by your local legal courier which would be a good addition to a mobile notaries' services, such as getting certified copies of certificates of incorporation from the Secretary of State, etc. It's so simple, but many busy corporate or legal workers don't want to take time out of their day to drive there and stand in line, or it's more effort to get a company check cut for the $10 certified copy fee and then get reimbursed for mileage than it is just to hire a courier service.