Posted by SheilaSJCA on 7/28/08 6:49pm
Msg #257376

What's the difference?

I meant to post this the other day, when I read the post a certain SS made stating that escrow companies would rather pay the signing service once a month, rather than having to take the time to pay all the the independent closing agents individually... I ask, what is the difference?
Whether it's a purchase or refi, escrow has to disperse funds and cut checks anyways, what is one more check that is done at that time?
This is a simple matter of being named on the settlement statement. I don't follow how "we" create more work for the escrow company. It would seem that more work is created when you have to go back over a months worth of closed escrows to determine which ones need to be paid to the signing service. Am I not understanding the process or what? I hope an escrow officer responds.

Reply by 101livescan on 7/29/08 8:50am
Msg #257443

I am not now working as an escrow officer, but have in the past for a bank RE loan department. There is no difference. Every time a file closes, checks are disbursed to whomever is listed on the "disbursement schedule" of the settlement statement. These checks are individually issued to whomever was contracted to do the loan signing/notary piece. So a signing service doesn't get just one check at the end of the month, they will receive a check for every file they contracted with the escrow officer to perform.

The signing service takes the position that they will pay the signing agent once a month or every six weeks for some (30-45 days). I've heard from signing services that they want to make sure the check clears before they pay the notary. Meanwhile, they bank the fees for at least 30 days before they pay the notary, and that is why most of us should strive to work directly for lender/title/escrow directly, so that we are paid within 5-10 days of our service, not 30-45.

Some signing services I work for pay within 10-14 days, but most have a 30-45 day payout schedule.

Reply by PAW on 7/29/08 9:25am
Msg #257449

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

Some escrow/title offices do consolidate payments to third party contractors, such as signing services. In those cases, typically the signing service is not identified on the HUD, but merely a line item for "signing services", "closing services" or whatever is used. At the end of the "billing period" (whether it be monthly, bimonthly, weekly, or whatever), the third party vendors are paid. So it is possible that a signing service would receive one check for multiple closings.

Different companies work differently, depending on how they are organized and how funds are disbursed.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/08 10:47am
Msg #257461

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

PAW’s got it. (As usual!) Many Title companies just list a “closing fee” say, $350, on the HUD. They pay the notary or SS out of that, and keep the difference. (Is this a violation of RESPA?) If they do say 300 out of office closings where they have someone else do the signing part. They can write the SS one check, rather than 300 separate checks. This saves a LOT of work. (and overhead) It also helps with their cash flow. It is however a BIG risk to the SS that lets some Title Company run up a months worth of signings, then if they go belly up, they leave the SS to pay out of their pocket the NSA fees. This has happened to several SS’s lately.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/08 11:24am
Msg #257469

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

"They can write the SS one check, rather than 300 separate checks. This saves a LOT of work. (and overhead)"

This statement and its kind always get me somehow - most check programs are programs: someone inputs the info, the check is spit out. sorry - I don't buy that excuse. Most of these companies do tons of work monthly - this is not the days of yore where some poor clerk is handwriting all these things and checks.

I have long held, privately, that there are violations aplenty in this business, or maybe I should say plenty of violations. I believe that if the HUD lists $xxlx then $xxlx should have a corresponding check. That is the way I was taught many years ago. I hear all the time of costs on HUD being one thing and the actual payment is another. To me this is fraudulent. JMHO

Reply by PAW on 7/29/08 12:10pm
Msg #257478

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

With a few title companies that I work with on a regular basis, I am not paid on the HUD, but as an operating expense. I submit my work invoices and am paid on their A/P cycle, which is the second and fourth Fridays of each month for one company, and month end for others.

It's not as simple as "input the info, the check is spit out." I'm sure the companies would much prefer it to be that way, but it isn't. There are accounting procedures that most companies use, especially the larger ones, including check verification through their bank (BofA, for example) which allows for immediate disbursement of funds and honoring of checks, once the lender's wire arrives.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/08 12:19pm
Msg #257481

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

Most of your big title companies how have their own ‘in house’ schedulers/or SS. When you are talking about a small Title Co, (like 8-9 employees) the kinds that do use a SS, they don’t have an entire accounting staff. And for someone to write and keep track of 300 checks, AND address and mail them in a timely fashion, and also field a thousand calls from notaries all across the country wondering when they will get paid, is not only VERY time consuming, it’s a PITA. If you’ve a program for that I have a friend that wants it BAD!

Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/08 12:35pm
Msg #257486

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

Almost all checks I receive (not all) are printed by computer, not hand-written. The address is printed on them as well- thus, the window envelopes. Come on people - there are so many accounting programs set up to write checks, this is not rocket science. Therefore, input data, spit out checks. Small companies use them too to save time, to free up people to do other things.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/29/08 12:40pm
Msg #257489

Stop, stop, stop! jba - you are making sense.

You are leaving out the wiggle room for the delay in paying notaries.

There is NO excuse for going into the signing "service" business if you don't have

Capital
Accounting practices
Manpower

so that you can pay your notaries on time. None. Not even delay in companies paying you. None.

Take no prisoners. They wanted the SS gig and all its trimmings, now let them do it right or be forever thought of as a deadbeat.

Reply by sue_pa on 7/29/08 1:31pm
Msg #257504

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...

Les, we know you have colleagues that worked for a big company, got screwed over and opened a signing service BUT, read your post, it makes no sense.

If a title company has 8 or 9 employees, I doubt they're going to close 15ish loans a day, every day, every month. Why in the world would they receive any calls, let alone thousands, if they telll their vendors their payment policy upfront and pay on a that set schedule (granted, you're always going to have the odd ball calling on day 3 to ask).

Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/08 6:03pm
Msg #257584

Re: What's the difference? Depends ...Sue

Well…You are correct. Some good friends of mine just this year after 20 years in the Title business, and losing their jobs, started a SS. And I have helped them cut and mail checks on the weekends far into the night. They use QuickBooks, and other programs, but it isn’t a two minute snap. And you would be surprised at the many calls about the docs, the borrower, the content of the doc's, and other varied problems they get. Someone MUST handle these calls, and see to it that whatever problem there is, is solved.
Sorry you think my post “makes no sense”. Maybe you could expound on that?? Please remember that EVERYTHING I post is only my opinion.
That said… I know several small Title Companies that are doing a (considering the times) a pretty good nationwide business. They just can’t afford the staff to do what it takes to schedule/follow up on their non-local business. They do use SS’s, for exactly the reasons I stated. Understand my “300” figure is/was only an EXAMPLE!! Put in 100, or 500 it makse no difference. I am just trying to shed a bit of light on the reasoning behind all the different nuances of this business. It ain’t all “Screw the SS! They are just parasites” There is NOT one of us here that MUST work for a SS. But there are MANY that really don’t really understand this business. Yes, I take both ‘sides’. I really believe that we as NSA’s to be legal, should have our fees on the HUD, and our check cut out of the escrow account when the loan funds. Without any middlemen involved. I also understand the reason Title Companies use SS’s. Think a moment about what if the loan does not fund? Or the borrower resends? Or we print the docs, and there is a last minute cancellation, or reschedule? Or there is a ‘no-show’? No loan = no money, to Title, to the mortgage company, and many times to the SS, But WE still want to get paid. On the HUD or not. How about FHA loans that all fund the first of the month regardless of when signed? We as NSA’s expect immediate payment for our hard work. This is a reasonable stance, but we should be aware of all the circumstances surrounding the expected payment, and also understand the risks involved. We are all in business independently; we don’t get overtime, or healthcare, or an expense account, car allowance, sick days, vacation…etc. and we sure don’t have to work for any SS. We should IMO at least UNDERSTAND the job.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 7/29/08 1:59pm
Msg #257516

Gee, I wonder what they do when they disburse funds??? n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 7/30/08 9:20am
Msg #257635

Re: Gee, I wonder what they do when they disburse funds???

You know I just don’t understand it. Why do you people think Title Companies use a SS? Because they think NSA’s make to much money? That we are all wealthy, and should share out fees with someone? Our fees, and those of a SS cost the Title Company exactly NOTHING! The borrower pays. They use a SS because it’s EASY, and it's free. And if you think scheduling a signing and all the related work involved from start to finish, is just cutting another check, think again.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 7/30/08 3:48pm
Msg #257765

Les, too bad you have joined the SS Camp

So they are making their jobs easier at the expense of the borrower? Why is that OK? As a consumer, do you feel that is a justified expense? Each and every refi or purchase represents work and $$ for the title company. No one is asking them to do something that isn't part of their job.
It is their file; they should do the related work, that is what they are getting paid for.
After hours and out of office accomodations, can be handled by their own staff if desired, or they can call us direct.
What is so hard about that? They are making things more complicated, with the addition of ANOTHER vendor- the signing service. It does not benefit the borrower at all.

Nowadays, volume is down EVERYWHERE- there is no reason for them to continue with this practice.
If they have reduced staff, they just need to figure out how to work smarter, and NOT take advantage of the unwitting borrower.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/31/08 12:59am
Msg #257887

Re: Les, too bad you have joined the SS Camp

I never said any of this was for the betterment of the borrower.

I agree that these “out of office closings” perhaps should be the Title Companies job, at least some of it.
I’m just trying to put forth an explanation of WHY some smaller Title companies use a SS. The larger better staffed Title companies have their in house schedulers, etc. (for the sake of argument call it a SS too.) But they make it a “profit center” so like FASS they charge the borrower say $350 closing fee and pay the notary $50. The smaller companies just can’t afford the at least one probably two full time people to do this work.
Thus the SS.
The borrower still pays, many times I've been on the HUD, and paid directly from title at funding. My fee of say $125. The Title Co still charges the borrower a $350 "closing fee" As a matter of fact one of my past sales pitches was to say to the closers an a mulit- office title Co here was, "Ask the borrower if they don't want to take a day off work to come to your office and sign the paperwork, that you have a Mobile Notary that will come to their home, their office or wherever and sign the paperwork, for a small fee. I close the loan, and you (the closer/escrow officer) don't have to bother with it, AND you still get your same closing fee." This worked. Considering the poor borrower was paying 10G's in fees, another $125 for the convenience was well worth it.
Yes, I see many fees on the HUD that I don’t agree with. Anything from $50-$75 courier fees, that cost Title $6-$12. I’ve seen “remote closing fee $300” From a CA title company a $400 escrow fee, on a loan in CO from a mid-west bank, and CO is not an escrow State, I have seen e-doc fees of $50 (but not to me) and lots and lots of doc prep fees. And my favorite, YSP. I also think that by not putting the actual notary fee, or the SS fee on the HUD that the Title companies are not in compliance. But many times these fees are in their bundles services/closing fee. And not truly disclosed. I’ve NEVER said ANY of this was for the benefit of the borrower! In fact I think Title Insurance is the biggest rip-off of them all. Think about it. Title Insurance is the ONLY insurance that insures things that have ALREADY happened. NOT something that may happen. So if the Title Company examiners can read they NEVER have to pay a claim.