Posted by NCLisa on 3/28/08 8:37am
Msg #241086
AIF or Attorney in Fact?
If the lender and TC give no instructions which way would you have the borrowers sign?
Do you take your state standards into consideration?
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/28/08 8:47am
Msg #241087
IMHO I refer to our handbook/manual as to how the SOS recommends the signers sign docs with Power of Attorney - with that in hand, I'd provide that info to TC/Lender and request they please let me know how they want the docs signed. I would not make the call on my own. JMHO
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Reply by Patricia/VT on 3/28/08 9:45am
Msg #241095
On the signature line, the attorney in fact spells it out; on initial lines, it's initials and AIF. But ALWAYS check with title if the instructions are not specific.
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Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 10:00am
Msg #241104
Here is a scenario:
Here is the scenerio: Docs are sent to borrower, you never see them, you were not told there is a POA. You get to BO's home, he's got the signed POA prepared by the TC's local attorney, and there are no instructions regarding the POA at all. It is a Saturday afternoon, TC is closed. Do you perform the way you do 99% of the time, do you have them not sign, do you do it another way? What do you do in this situation? (PS - your notary handbook is not the place to look for the answer, as this has nothing to do with a notorial act)
Also, even though the notary is not supposed to decide which ack/jurat to use, if your state requires a "special" POA ack to a recordable doc, do you supply it or not?
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Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 10:01am
Msg #241105
Re: Here is a scenario:
And no, there are no closing instructions with the docs. This company only includes the welcome letter and docs to be signed.
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Reply by Les_CO on 3/28/08 10:25am
Msg #241109
Re: Here is a scenario:
If it were me, here in CO I'd have it done as follows: (signed) John Doe (printed) by (signed) Jane Doe (printed) his Attorney in fact.
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Reply by Leon_CO on 3/28/08 10:28am
Msg #241112
Re: Here is a scenario:
I have been in that situation. It was a last minute deal. The lender approved the power of attorney, but there were no instructions. I called the title company for instructions. They didn't know how a person should sign with power of attorney. I told them how I intended to have the borrower sign. They said okay.
I have a notary certificate that complies with Colorado notary law that I use for power of attorney acknowledgements. It's spelled out in the Colorado Revised Statutes:
"The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (name of attorney-in-fact) as attorney in fact on behalf of (name of principal)."
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/28/08 10:44am
Msg #241114
Re: Here is a scenario:
"(PS - your notary handbook is not the place to look for the answer, as this has nothing to do with a notorial act)"
Page 40 of the FL Governor's Reference Manual DOES tell us how it should be signed...that's why I referenced it...we also have to note that capacity in the certificate. So without specific instructions from the TC, the handbook is the first place I'd go then, like I said, provide that info to title and request instruction how they want me to handle it.
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Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/28/08 9:52am
Msg #241100
Preferences often spelled out in Closing Instr =) n/m
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Reply by Lee/AR on 3/28/08 10:44am
Msg #241115
Go figure....
I had one where the 'words' were typed: Jane Doe, as Attorney-in-fact for Joe Doe. That's how she signed. Next day, I get the whole package again via edocs--using the indentical package, mind you (& another fee) to go back and have her sign Joe Doe by Jane Doe, his Attorney-in-fact. Note that the 'incorrect' way was still typed on each doc & she had to sign 'different than typed'.
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Reply by kathy/ca on 3/28/08 10:47am
Msg #241117
A POA requires a "special" ACK?? n/m
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Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 10:58am
Msg #241121
NC POA Ack
STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA COUNTY OF _______________
I, _________________________ a Notary Public for ___________ county and State aforesaid, do hereby certify that ________________________________________________ personally appeared before me this day and acknowledged the due execution of the foregoing instrument.
WITNESS my hand and official stamp or seal, this the ______ day of __________________, 2008.
______________________________
Notary Public
My Commission Expires:
---------- -------------------------------------------------
STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA COUNTY OF _______________
I, _______________________________, a Notary Public for ___________ County and State aforesaid, do hereby certify that ____________________________, Attorney In Fact for _____________________________________________________________, personally appeared before me this day and, being by me duly sworn, says that he/she executed the foregoing and annexed instrument for and in behalf of said -_________________________, that his/her authority to execute and acknowledge said instrument is contained in a Power of Attorney duly executed, acknowledged and recorded in the ___________ County Registry in Book _______ at Page ________, and that this instrument was executed by him/her under and by virtue of the authority given by said instrument granting him/her power of attorney. I further certify that the said ________________________ acknowledged the due execution of the foregoing and annexed instrument for the purposes therein expressed for and in behalf of the said __________________________________.
WITNESS my hand and official stamp or seal, this the _________ day of ________________ 2008.
_______________________________________
Notary Public
My Commission expires:
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Reply by Tony_FL on 3/28/08 1:21pm
Msg #241149
Re: NC POA Ack
This Ack you are providing is for a POA that has been previously recorded at the courthouse. How do you complete the POA Ack if it HASN'T BEEN RECORDED at the courthouse?
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Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 2:41pm
Msg #241170
Re: NC POA Ack
You leave the book and page spaces blank, and they are completed during the recording process according to our general statutes.
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Reply by WDMD on 3/28/08 3:09pm
Msg #241178
Re: Maryland acknowledgment of attorney-in-fact
State of Maryland acknowledgment of attorney-in-fact:
STATE OF MARYLAND
COUNTY OF __________
On this _______ day of ______________, _______, before me the
undersigned officer, personally appeared ______________________
known to me ( or satisfactorily proven) to be the person(s) whose name(s)
is/are subscribed as attorney(s)-in-fact for _____________________
and acknowledged that he/she/they executed the same as the act of
his/her/their principal for the purposes therein contained.
In witness thereof I hereunto set my hand and official seal.
_______________________________
Notary Public
My Commission Expires:
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Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 11:04am
Msg #241123
Re: A POA requires a "special" ACK??
Not the POA, but any recordable documents that are signed using the POA.
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Reply by kathy/ca on 3/28/08 3:01pm
Msg #241175
I have not had this come up in the past but wonder if there
is a "special" ack needed for a POA here in CA, anyone????? TIA!
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Reply by GWest on 3/28/08 3:56pm
Msg #241184
Re: I have not had this come up in the past but wonder if there
No, that would be considered notarizing capacity in California.
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Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 11:19am
Msg #241126
Re: Go figure....
I've had that happen to me before. I'd never had anyone in 20 years sign "Jane doe, as Attorney in fact for John Doe" and the one time I was told that was what the lender required, it turned out to be a re sign a week later.
As an EO and as a Paralegal, we used Jane Doe by John Doe his AIF, and 99% of the TC's I work for allow that.
I do include the correct ack for the recordable docs, but I know there are some NC Notaries that do not even know there is a "special ack."
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Reply by Vince/KS on 3/28/08 11:33am
Msg #241127
This POA acceptable signatures from a handbook
One or more of these may not be acceptable in all situations to all lenders in Kansas or elsewhere - just one source (first entry is signature - second entry is typed):
Joe Borrower by John Doe, Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower by John Doe, attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower by John Doe, Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower by John Doe, Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower by John Doe, Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower
John Doe as Joe Borrower, Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower
John Doe
Joe Borrower, by John Doe Attorney-in-fact
John Doe Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower
Joe Borrower by John Doe POA
Joe Borrower, by John Doe his/her attorney in fact.
Joe Borrower by John Doe
By and Through His/Her Attorney in Fact, John Doe
Joe Borrower by John Doe
Joe Borrower; by and through His/Her Attorney in Fact John Doe
John Doe, as Attorney in Fact for Joe Borrower
Joe Borrower acting herein by and through his/her lawful agent and attorney-in-fact John Doe
Joe Borrower by John Doe
Joe Borrower acting herein by and through his/her lawful agent and attorney-in-fact John Doe
John Doe POA for
Joe Borrower acting herein by and through his/her lawful agent and attorney-in-fact John Doe
ALL CALIFORNIA documents executed by a POA MUST be signed as:
Joe Borrower by John Doe, Attorney-in-fact
Joe Borrower by John Doe, attorney-in-fact
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Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/29/08 12:07am
Msg #241247
Re: This POA acceptable signatures from a handbook
What handbook is this? I've never seen anything -- at least in the CA SOS Notary Handbook -- that states *anything* about CA docs executed by POA...
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