Posted by Margaret_FL on 3/21/08 9:17pm
Msg #240217

Another bad notary

I just got an overnight package sent to me from another notary from Maryland that notarized a loan package for the husbands part of the package. I will be signing the wife on Saturday. He missed signatures, did not get initials from the husband that were required on the mortage and did not fill out the acknowledgements at all, he just stamped and signed. Example , Personally appeared before me __________, all left blank, no borrowers name. I will be using separate acknowledgements for each of the notarizations for the wife. He also included his invoice for the overnighted docs for $175. I am also getting $175 for this overnighted refinance. But I feel that they will reject this loan due to the errors of the other notary. When acknowledgements ask for Printed Notary Name, I print my name, when it asks for my commission expiration date, I write it in. Even though my stamps has it all on it, I always fill the information in when it asks for it. Am I wrong? I have a stamp for my name and a date stamp with my commission expiration date.

Reply by PAW on 3/21/08 10:05pm
Msg #240222

I certainly would add a nicely printed cover sheet explaining the condition of the docs when you received them. You wouldn't want any blame for the mess.

>>> When acknowledgements (sic) ask for Printed Notary Name, I print my name, when it asks for my commission expiration date, I write it in. Even though my stamps has it all on it, I always fill the information in when it asks for it. Am I wrong? <<<

No, you're not wrong to add the data when asked. But also be aware, that under Florida statutes, you must print or type your name beneath your signature on ALL certificates. This is IN ADDITION to having your name stamped on the document (in your seal).

Reply by FLdocrunner on 3/21/08 10:48pm
Msg #240225

I would call and give TC heads up on hubbies paperwork

Hope all is well! Happy Easter to you.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 3/22/08 7:29am
Msg #240239

I did give them a heads up and I have written up all the errors that were made.

The other notary had a signature that was a squiggle and looked like initials instead of a signature. My handwriting is legible to anyone but I still print my name. I see many notaries that do this. I look at mortgages online and I see this all the time. I just call it lazy. Since so many loan packets have 20 or more pages that have to be notarized, I am having a stamp made with my printed name to save time.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/22/08 7:48am
Msg #240240

... I just call it lazy....

I'm far from lazy and I don't print any of that 'stuff'. My state doesn't requrie it and my stamp has everything needed. I see no reason for extra work or redundancy or more chance for errors. Printing my name and commission expiration to a document add NOTHING to it nor detract anything from it.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/22/08 8:00am
Msg #240242

My signature is a squiggle. My printing is clear and I can write legibly but my signature is my signature. My stamp has my printed name on it.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/22/08 8:34am
Msg #240243

My stamp has my name on it too. However, Florida notary laws also require us to print our name under our signature.

Florida requires the following to be on the notary certificate:

The certificate must contain:

1) The venue (location of the notarization)
2) Type of notarial act (acknowledgment or oath/affirmation)
3) The signer personally appeared before the notary ("before me"
4) The name(s) of the signer(s)
5) The actual date of the notarization
6) The form of identification used to identify the signer/s
7) The signature of the notary
8) The name of the notary printed/typed/stamped below the signature.
9) The notary seal.


So, the name must be printed/typed or stamped below the signature. Plus the notary seal must be on the certificate.

I sometimes don't fill in those commission expires dates. It isn't required on the certificate and the date is on the seal.


I had someone bring me a document from a title company, instructions were for the notary to place his/her telephone number under the signature. I told the signer that I don't put my phone number on certificates but they were quite welcome to send my business card to the company.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/22/08 9:49am
Msg #240254

I was only posting in reference to my "squignature" however, since you mentioned the rest of the information, according to my references (not the handbook which doesn't mention it) there is no need to add additional information because it is on the seal. I will out of courtesy if it is requested.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/22/08 10:03am
Msg #240258

I like that word - squignature! Describes my husband's signature perfectly

I have no idea why Florida requests printed name beneath signature as it seems redundant as name is on the seal. I see a lot of certificates where the notary places the seal under the signature line and thinks it is fine!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 3/21/08 11:03pm
Msg #240227

As always, I'm with PAW.

Adding a sheet outling the problems with the previous notarizations _without offering an opinion_ is A Good Idea. I'd go further. I'd call and tell whomever hired me about the problems. The company might want you to ship the docs (after you'd done your thing) back to the idi ... oops ... previous (alledged) Notary to have as many corrections done as possible. (Just my tuppence.)

As for hand-printing your name, Margaret, I do the same thing that you do. Even though it seems redundant, better to do ask asked. ("Within reason", he hastily added.)

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/21/08 11:27pm
Msg #240229

IMO
I would as the others suggested give a heads up that this appears to be an incomplete signing on the other notary's part as they might need to address this immed'ly so the loan funds.......... I would of course do my part... as that is what you were contracted for and the hubby's complete or incomplete is not your prb per se............ meaning you cannot do anything to fix it............

Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/22/08 3:58am
Msg #240233

I had this happen to me

I signed the first BO and the 2nd SA didn't feel like I did my job correctly and called the SS explaining what I had done. I explained to the SS when they called to tell me the docs were on the way to me that I could NOT notarize the ID sheet as rules and regulations didn't allow me to notarize my own signature. I got the number of the 2nd SA and called her, she told me it was her understanding that by sealing that doc (TC "required" this doc notarized) she was giving her certification that she indeed checked the ID. This is an SA that openly advertises she handles immigration and bankruptcy docs.

Even if I was 100% positive the 1st SA made errors I'd only follow Paul's advice and send a cover letter. My ONLY job is to do MY part and not do a QC on what the previous SA did. In my case the SA caused me to initially look incompetent but the end result is she just looked dumb. I know what she was trying to do, yesterday I did 2 signings for same SS, today I'll do another and I've got to wonder how many she'll do in the future.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/22/08 10:46am
Msg #240264

I complete all certs and fill in all the blanks...

MHO...to not complete them is sending back an incomplete certificate. So I do it. My .02

Reply by Tony_FL on 3/22/08 11:27am
Msg #240279

I AGREE ..

Florida "requires" that there be NO blanks entires on a document. If I didn't fill in my own commission expire date, etc ... then I wouldn't be doing my job properly (even though the information is included on my seal).

Reply by Teresa/FL on 3/22/08 11:56am
Msg #240285

The notarial certficate is not part of the document,

even if it is printed on the same page. The reference to no blanks being allowed on a document to be notarized means everything above the notarial certificate.

However, I do complete the certificate with all required information, even my commission expiration date, if requested. To leave blanks in the certificate would make the notarization incomplete.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/22/08 12:49pm
Msg #240289

Re: The notarial certficate is not part of the document,

... To leave blanks in the certificate would make the notarization incomplete....

Really? How do you come to that determination? Since CA has changed their acks to include perjury language, I've had quite a few come through here with that language. My not filling that paragraph out makes my notarization incomplete when that has nothing to do with PA and everything to do with CA? I see those funky Florida type jurats all the time requesting type of id. That's not required or even suggested here. Not filling it out makes an incompelte notarization? PA says what is required, not what is not and I'm guessing every other state is the same way.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 3/22/08 1:57pm
Msg #240294

Since I am in Florida, my post was directed towards

Florida notaries. Tony/FL quoted the Florida requirement for no blanks in the document and included the certificate as part of the document.

My response was meant to apply to Florida only.

Of course each state sets its own requirements and anyone reading this board SHOULD know to refer to their own state's laws.

No one should rely solely on posts in a notary forum for advice on how to perform their job as a notary.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/22/08 6:08pm
Msg #240312

Re: The notarial certficate is not part of the document,

"To leave blanks in the certificate would make the notarization incomplete"

If all the elements required by Florida notary law are there then the notarization is complete.

I do not always fill in that commission expiration date, but it does not make the notarization incomplete. I make sure all elements required by Florida notary law are completed.

Reply by PAW on 3/22/08 8:14pm
Msg #240318

Re: I AGREE ..

Tony,

Please show me where any regulation, be it a statute or in the manual, where there can be "no blank entries" on a document.

If you read the statutes, FSA 117.107 paragraph (10), it states: "(10) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the document is incomplete or blank."

A document may be complete when it in fact does contain blanks. However, a document may not be completely blank, that is, no blanks filled in.

The most common example is when there is a list of items that may be required to be completed only if that item is checked. Items not checked may contain blank spaces as there would be no information required for that section. The blank spaces certainly would not make the document incomplete and perfectly legal and binding. The best example of this that I can think of off hand, is a Limited Power of Attorney for Healthcare. It is a form that needs to be completed by the grantor and is constructed such that the grantor need only complete certain sections, leaving those sections not to be included in the powers, unchecked and spaces left blank. (It is advisable that any blank spaces not required to be completed, have a line drawn through them or "n/a" placed in those spaces to prevent possible fraudulent actions in the future.)

Some title companies and attorneys require that the commission expiration date be printed, typed or stamped beneath the notary's signature. Not doing so will not make a notarization incomplete or invalid as long as each required element pursuant to state statutes are present. However, the document author, custodian or recipient has the right to not accept the document based on their additional requirements which may include the printing of the notary's commission expiration date.

Reply by Terri_CA on 3/22/08 8:09pm
Msg #240316

I, too, have a package received today. Husband signed a Grant Deed. The notary didn't complete the certificate correctly, the seal is all blurred and he put his stamp on some of the printed wording.

I know that the Los Angeles County Recorder will reject it. But not my fault, I've got all my certificates properly filled out and sealed

Reply by Terri_CA on 3/22/08 8:11pm
Msg #240317

Oh and the other thing on the Grant Deed is that the name is signed without "Jr." but the notary put it in the certificate, so the certificate does NOT match what was signed.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 3/23/08 12:44am
Msg #240343

I know personally about 10-11 signings

I have been a notary since 2002.
On this 10-11 times I have been the 2nd notary to receive the loan docs, I have never once has the other notary get the 1st loan docs signed correctly.

Missing initials, missing signatures, missing stamps, missing dates.

Most of these signing had 2-4 of the above missing.

All of these loans originated out of CA.

Not much a sample but it is surprising!