Posted by Anthony/OR on 3/7/08 4:47pm
Msg #238428

Delayed Payment

Hi All,

Here's a scenario I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with...

Reverse Mortgage Signing, 90 miles away from my home. I got the lead from the Loan Originator. The borrower quoted $200 for the mobile notary signing. Due to disclosure laws and the fact that they were already having to bring money into the deal I was told by one of the higher ups at the mortgage company not to worry about it, that I could invoice the mortgage company and that I would be paid out of back end monies. My response, based on the time that I've personally known the Loan Originator as well as the higher up guy and the fact that we are talking about a matter of about $40.... I get the docs that need to be signed and I question some of the numbers... the mortgage company says "its alright just go get it signed" - Okey Dokey - I go out, the borrowers are okay with everything so we sign....

As the story goes, I get a call the day after Escrow receives the signed docs... There was a problem with the docs as they were drawn and they need to be redone and resigned. My response was - the borrowers need this loan to close ASAP - I'll go their as soon as you get docs drawn and I was clear about the fact that there would be another signing fee. Everyone iss on the same page... Again - I'm told that the borrower can not be charged any more money but that the mortgage company will pay me out of back end profit, that I should just simply invoice them.

I invoiced them immediatly after doing the signing a second time, 90 miles one way on February 12, 2008. Nothing came in. So I made some phone calls and got voice mail and then finally got in touch with a processor who contacted their accounting department. I get an email forwarded to me from the Accounting Department stating:

"It will be processed with payroll at the end of next week. I would imagine he can expect payment the following week." This puts payment out until no sooner than the 17th. This is 5 weeks out after the signing...

My invoices say payment due upon loan funding or 30 days from time of signing whichever comes sooner however in this case (bad for me) the "whichever comes sooner" some how clipped out of the electronic version of my invoice. Regardless - they will be beyond the 30 days... I've gotten paid on all of the other stuff that came from the escrow companies but not the overage that the mortgage company said it would pick up.

Am I being too impatient?
Should I just ride it out and wait another two weeks?
Any thoughts would be helpful...

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/7/08 4:56pm
Msg #238429

While you clearly state your payment expectations, and you have a right to be impatient if they don't pay you in that time frame....

It happens ALL THE TIME in this business. So expect payment within 30-90 days, if they go over 30 (hopefully you put on the invoice a late fee charge?)....

Unfortunate part of this business....but if its for a good client which it sounds you have a good relationship with....I wouldn't rock the boat, unless they absolutely delay payment over 60-90 days.

Reply by Elaine Sedlock on 3/7/08 6:03pm
Msg #238438

I agree w/Shane. In this business, like many others, payment often takes much longer than 30 days. I'd give them a bit longer and then contact them again. It has helped me in many various business transactions to approach the subject of non-payment in a patient manner (no matter how impatient I really feel), saying something like, "I'm sure it's a simple oversight and just wanted to bring it to your attention because I know you're always on top of your balances due (or whatever); but . . . blah, blah, blah." Let them know you appreciate their business, send another invoice (If they tell you an invoice isn't necessary, tell them it's for YOUR records) and see what happens. I've had people jump through hoops to get my money to me as quickly as possible this way. On the other hand, nothing is fool proof! I've been chasing one SS down forever to collect $135! They act like it'll break the bank to pay me! Good luck!

Elaine

Reply by Anthony/OR on 3/10/08 12:10pm
Msg #238706

Shane and Elaine,

Thanks so much for this feedback. It is very valuable and I will follow it. I think in reality my gut was telling me what you are saying but I didn't want to go that direction and find out that I'm being taken advantage of by the situation.

I'm going to reply in forum to another reply to my post which will include more information on the topic if you are interested... Thanks again!

Anthony

Reply by sue_pa on 3/8/08 6:12am
Msg #238483

YOU questioned numbers when you received the paperwork? Why are YOU even looking at numbers - they're none of your business. How could you possibly know their numbers to question anything? Why are you concerned that "the borrowers cannot be charged any more money"? What they are charged has nothing to do with your fee. YOU told them these borrowers need to close ASAP? One more time, none of your business.

I don't understand why your nose is in the middle of this loan. I also don't know why you're questioning payment when you're not even at 30 days.

Reply by Anthony/OR on 3/10/08 12:57pm
Msg #238716

Hi Sue from PA,

I wanted to address the concerns you raised about my post...

You Stated: "Why are YOU even looking at numbers - they're none of your business.":

Until December of 2007 I've worked in the mortgage business at the executive management level since 2002. In doing so, much of my role / responsibility was dealing with loans that had problems. Whether the source of the problem was the lender, the loan originator, escrow or the borrower, etc, these problems wound up on my desk in order to be sure that if the problem was our responsibility that it was taken care of the right way or if it was not us that was the problem that we were protected from liability. All problems are best avoided but if there were any that were the worst was when there was a problem with the numbers that hurt the borrower. This particular deal was a reverse mortgage with an elderly couple that had a critical situation that they needed this loan to fund. It had been hampered with the fact that there was one delay after another due to dishonest people in a separate division at the company that I had previously worked at. Additional details which would we innapropriate to add to a public post also play into the situation. The problem with the "numbers" was obvious to me and thus I questioned it.



You Stated: "Concernend that the borrowers cannont be charged any more money?"

The law in Oregon states that the charges must be CLEARLY COMMUNICATED to the "customer" in advance. The method of that communication for a mortgage loan signing is the disclosures that the borrower signs, AKA Good Faith Estimate(GFE). Now - My charges are my charges. The question then becomes "Who IS the customer"... The customer then becomes the person that is paying the bill. The GFE told the borrower $200. My charges were higher due to mileage etc and the loan originator and the loan originator's supervisor absolutely wanted me to do this signing. Therefor they were willing to pay the overage out of monies that they had earned, again all amounts that were clearly disclosed previously on the GFE. Thus the situation that they would compensate me for the difference between my charges and what was disclosed to the borrower.


You stated: "One more time, none of your business"

Your post was very forward and critical of a situation that you did not have all the facts. Had I known my scenario was going to be critiqued from all angles I would have included all of this detail... Then again, none of this extra detail pertained to the question I posted so I left it out.

My statement that these borrowers need to close right away and I was going to be ready to go out there when docs were ready regardless of my already planned schedule was made based on the fact that I had already been to their home, knew their situation, knew that the debacle was caused due to the fact that the person drawing docs made errors - in other words it was not the fault of the borrower.


You Stated: Why my "nose is in the middle of this loan"

Something I learned along the way is that the borrower doesn't realize (or care) how many different entities are involved in getting their mortgage done. They are just getting their mortgage - plain and simple. So - if everyone does their part and maybe goes the extra mile in terms of paying attention to detail and being jonny-on-the-spot to get things done things will go so much smoother. I'm not talking about cutting corners, nor am I talking about a notary becoming biased. I'm talking about doing things like telling the lender "Hey I will drop everything because this borrower needs to to sign this loan!"


You Stated" I also don't know why you're questioning payment when you're not even at 30 days."

I was questioning the situation when I was at the 26 day point and I recieved an email telling me that my invoice was included in the "payroll" process which is another two weeks out. I am not an employee of that company - I'm a vendor that invoiced them. A major contribution to my question is due to the fact that the "fine print" of my invoice, specifically the part about "whichever comes sooner" was somehow chopped off. My invoice was supposed to state "payment due upon loan funding or thirty days from time of signing whichever comes sooner" Therefore the two aspects of my question were regarding the error in fine print and the fact that the loan had funeded three weeks from the time of signing. Let me also add that the company that I used to work with paid invoices the second they came through the door. Let me also add that I had already received payment for three other deals that were signed AFTER the one I had questions about getting paid.


I hope this answers all of your questions to your satisfaction.

Anthony/OR