Posted by Joan Bergstrom on 3/27/08 11:03pm
Msg #241056

Electronic Notarization (AKA E-Signings)

I wonder if we are beginning a new phase of notary work?

It almost feels like 2003 when I was asked if I could do email documents and print both copies? I said yes and then I found out how to do them. Six years later I have done approx 2000+ edoc signings.

Recently I had a company asked me to fill out a application to do Electronic Notarization (AKA E-Signings.)

I don't need a signature pad or a e-notarized stamp.

What I must have is a laptop (XP or Vista) and wireless connector for the laptop. Some of the docs would be printed as usual and the rest would be retrieved by the lender on a secured website.

I have both the laptop and wireless.

My question is: "Are other companies sending out this type of application? Are things changing or is this just one company doing the loan process a different way?

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/27/08 11:15pm
Msg #241060

Seems that a few are trying. Problem is they don't want to pay enough to warrant the equipment needed nor the time/logistics of the situation. Their approach seems to be... well, gee, you don't have to print all the docs, so it's cheaper for you. They 'forget' that you're providing ALL the equipment & costs of this for questionable convenience (to whom?) I don't think the B's give a hoot.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/27/08 11:46pm
Msg #241065

Yeah, I have had some contact and it seems that they want to cut the fees. Never mind that we have to buy a card or we get a free card with a couple of wireless carriers if we agree to a 2 year service contract at 59.99 / month. And then up here, we have spotty service to begin with. A reduced fee is not going to happen. If anything, the fee needs to go up 25 dollars or so, as all the companies are doing is transferring some more of their work to us .... so ........ I can and will do it, but not at low ball prices ......

I don't think when you were going to edocs, they were cutting your fees, were they?

Reply by jba/fl on 3/28/08 12:08am
Msg #241067

JMO: I don't want to be the Beta tester for this whole process for reduced fees

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/28/08 12:20am
Msg #241068

Heck, no!

1997....my first edoc. They doubled my fee. For the next few years, even with excess travel included...the fee was doubled. Of course, most stuff was overnighted and edocs were viewed then as a crises situation. Gotta get it done, hang the cost. One wonders what they are doing wrong now as they could afford it then.

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/28/08 12:31am
Msg #241069

Re: Heck, no!

Back in 1993 when signing was relatively new, we of course had no edocs, it was unknown. All docs came overnight, and I received $75.00 a signing. Good money considering the cost of living, price of gas, etc. Now how can anyone justify, in todays economy especially, getting paid that same amount of money for edocs, let alone e-signings which will supposedly be virtually paperless? Yeah right! And the NNA churns out a new crop of wide-eyed gullible suckers to lower fees again!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/28/08 2:24am
Msg #241072

Not only the extra equipment costs, etc. but think of the extra time. Packing up and schlepping the laptop, along with everything else I have to tak. Then at the borrowers' home, setting it up, signing in, hoping you get a signal... and what if you don't? Has anyone seen any backup plan for those situations?

I'm with you, Glenn. I have a laptop and can get the wireless card quickly enough, once I can justify the cost. But with so many other expenses on the rise, I'm not going to do it until I'm convinced that it would be a good business decision for me.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 3/28/08 8:06am
Msg #241082

I already have the euipment, air card and my service is $29.99 a month. I have Tmobile, you get the better rate if your cell phone is with them also. I have had not problem with reception so far. I have been quoted $90. Most of my equipment paid for it self in the first month. Being able to not go home and print documents has made me able to do more closings and saving on gas. My laptop is a HP 1100 tablet PC, I am able to also get signatures on the tablet PC

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/28/08 8:03am
Msg #241081

Not to nitpick...but E-Signings and E-Notarization

are two separate things - although admittedly closely related - you don't need the electronic notary seal for an e-signing - just a laptop and aircard (or a guaranteed signal or a borrower with online service) - you print those docs that need notarization and get wet signatures for them and notarize that way - supposedly smaller packages although, from what I've read here, not always necessarily so. But you still have printing costs, traveling costs, and cost to drop the package.

I have one company touting that to me but since the company has failed to even send me one NORMAL signing over the last year or so that I've been in their database, I can't justify the expense of the aircard yet. Also, I've sort-of "polled" some of the borrowers I've dealt with recently, asking how they'd feel about doing their signing on the internet - they're not thrilled about it and are very skeptical - I suppose that technique is going to be a hard sell on the LO's part to convince their borrower that it's safe and secure...

JMHO

Reply by Vince/KS on 3/28/08 10:27am
Msg #241110

Re: Not to nitpick...but E-Signings and E-Notarization

I had a call to do one yesterday and couldn’t due to conflict. But, the scheduler said that the documents had already been sent to the borrower. I would ask them to print the signature page of the legals for wet signatures and stamp where appropriate. That’s different than what I’ve read.

It raised several questions after getting off the telephone: Do the borrowers have legal paper? Does it matter if the printer is inkjet and not laser? Will the LO already have been through the docs with them? How long will it take? What should the charge be in comparison to a “normal” closing?

Reply by BobbiCT on 3/28/08 10:45am
Msg #241116

Printing just the signature pages?

"I would ask them to print the signature page of the legals for wet signatures and stamp where appropriate."

I personally don't like this idea.

1. Most signature pages do NOT identify which document they are attached to. How does the notary know it will be attached to the same document the borrowers have on their computer or in the eFile?

2. I am taking the borrowers acknowledgment that they understood and signed what? I'll still have to look at the computer screen with them to coordinate the viewing of the document with the appropriate signature/notarization page.

3. When I complete the jurat, same thing. I'm taking their oath that the statements on the document they are viewing are true and coordinate the signature/notarization page with that specific document.

Not to promote any particular vendor, but if this is going to be done, I like the idea of the completed signatures, dates, and notarization block being tied to the eDocument in the eFile rather than an un-notarized eDocument which becomes part of a separate hard copy "wet" signature and notarization page. Although I haven't done one, some vendors state that you only need to register with them to do this; they have all the necessary software, it's a matter of logging on with your user name & password. For example, CT does not require a notary to have a stamp, seal or journal, which makes it easy to sign up with a vendor.

Reply by dickb/wi on 3/28/08 12:44pm
Msg #241138

good bobbi, i didn't read your response before i posted.... n/m

Reply by dickb/wi on 3/28/08 12:42pm
Msg #241137

and one important item.........



" I would ask them to print the signature page of the legals for wet signatures and stamp where appropriate. "


you may need to print the whole doc that needs a wet sig for notarizations if there are blanks in the doc incl but not limited to extra sig lines, so that you can draw a line in the blanks as you can't notarize a doc with blanks....at least in wi and i believe in most states.....that is what i would tell the tc/ss when they would say "but you don't have to print many pages...

Reply by Gerry_VT on 3/28/08 7:14pm
Msg #241221

Signature pages

I'm pretty sure the scheduler was wrong about printing just signature pages for wet signatures. The whole point of wet signatures is most likely so the mortgage, deed of trust, or power of attorney can be recorded in a jurisdiction that is not capable of accepting digital documents (or accepts a different form of digital document than the title company or lender is able to create). To be recorded in such a jurisdiction, the whole document would have to be on paper, not just the signature page.

Vince's point about the borrower not having appropriate printing capability is quite valid.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 3/28/08 3:15pm
Msg #241179

Re: Not to nitpick...but E-Signings and E-Notarization

Exactly, and if the borrower had a computer and they agree you can do an e-signing at their home.

Reply by NCLisa on 3/28/08 8:34am
Msg #241085

Check your state law regarding E-notary

Here in NC, you need an e-notary seal, and must take an e-notary class, which I've done. I now need to spend money and either buy some equipment, or set up with a vendor to purchase my e-notary equipment.

I can't see your state SOS letting e-notarization happen without them regulating the process.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 3/28/08 9:50am
Msg #241098

Re: Check your state law regarding E-notary -- Vermont

Vermont, like many states, has passed the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act, which authorizes electronic notarization, but says hardly anything about how it is to be done. The secretary of state is silent on the matter. For real estate transactions, the defacto regulation is by the town clerks; since they are not ready to accept electronic documents, electronic notarization won't work for anything that needs to be recorded.

Reply by dickb/wi on 3/28/08 12:47pm
Msg #241141

there are also federal laws that come in to play and....

in some cases they will superseed the state laws....some parts of the federal law state the type of soft ware that you will need....

Reply by Cheryl Elliott on 3/28/08 9:07am
Msg #241092

I don't think these people are offering enough compensation for the talent, skill, proficiency and technology. They need to get real...evaluate their pay structure.

Reply by Daniel Suarez on 3/28/08 10:49am
Msg #241119

Where is e-signings leading?

I think fees should be higher at first. Like anything new it costs more when it first comes out due to increase over head costs. As the technology involved lowers in price than fees can be lowered. Also, I know where I live in PA getting a cellular signal can be a challenge. How nice would it be if each signer had WiFi!

Ideally it would be nice to walk into a home with WiFi access and a tablet PC that has been registered with the State/County you are a notary of just as a notary registeres his/her signature today. All the docs on the tablet PC. Docs are reviewed as we do today and the customer initials each doc as it gets reviewed. Once all docs are reviewed the customer signs once and all the signatures spots are populated. The docs are then emailed to the closing company, title company, deeds office, customer, lawyer, whom ever ..... move on to the next closing ....

In the end, I think, customers will have the opportunity to verify their own signatures. As you can now. Again, with the right tools. Online company VeriSign for instance. As we get more and more younger folks with a more technical background and more used to all the computer technology all around us expect a trend towards self verification. Of course, I'm sure companies offering these services will have to take measures to truely know their signers.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 3/28/08 12:40pm
Msg #241136

Customer digital signature

Daniel Suarez wrote "In the end, I think, customers will have the opportunity to verify their own signatures. As you can now. Again, with the right tools." If I acting as the signer, not the notary, I will digitally sign any important document on MY PC with MY digital certificate using my own copy of the signature software. Otherwise, there is no deal. Type my name with the keyboard as my digital signature? No f***ing way.

Reply by Daniel Suarez on 3/28/08 5:38pm
Msg #241212

Re: Customer digital signature

How young are you Gerry?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 3/28/08 6:39pm
Msg #241217

Re: Customer digital signature

I'm a little over 50. If you're thinking I'm not thrilled about computers because I'm not in my 20s, that's not the source of my conservatism about digital signatures. I've been using computers since I was 18, and owned one of the original IBM PCs. In the 90s I wrote some software that used some of the same algorithims that digital signatures use; this was used to make sure design kits for integrated circuits contained exactly the version of files they were supposed to contain. It's a bit like the advice about sausage: if you want to eat it, its better not to see how it's made.

Reply by Daniel Suarez on 3/28/08 9:11pm
Msg #241233

Re: Customer digital signature

:o)

with regards the VeriSign thing ... I was reffering to perhaps folks in their now 20s....

Reply by Sandra Clark on 3/29/08 3:40pm
Msg #241310

I must admit I know enough about this to be dangerous. What I have learned is that the NNA is the biggest pusher for this form of notarization. This year, during our General Assemby (our form of state government) the NNA hired a paid lobbyist, also a big time lawyer in VA. to push this agenda through. I assure you he did not come cheap. So, from this I am able to see who has the most to gain and that is the NNA, to push sales of their equipment.

In my thought process, aside from equipment sales to notaries, do they also have an interest in sales of equipment to the various courthouses, and lenders for e-notarizations? If it becomes mandated for all of our counties to accept it, who pays for the clerk's office to handle e-signings. Pure and simple, the tax payers, whether they like it or not or if they are even able to use it.

I live in and service very rural areas of central Va. Each time I go out, I hope that I will have cell phone services. More often than not, I don't. I travel areas that my GPS unit can't find. I fail to see how this can become a product for the rural areas of the US, not just Va.

I hope that any of you will share your thoughts with me - and if I am mistaken, please feel free to set me on the path of enlightenment.