Posted by LisaWI on 3/25/08 8:16pm
Msg #240709

Im Not Gambling Anymore-Long

I thought this was rather funny and Im trying to put the pieces together for it to make sense, but it just isn’t happening. I, just today, implemented a new payment for services agreement that I will be doing with companies. Not so much for my regulars who I love and respect dearly, but the once in awhile companies or the comps who like to take their sweet ol time paying.

My new payment policy is placed on my website and if a company wants me to work for them, they have to read it and reply in the contact message box acknowledging they have read and agree. If you think about it, most people who are calling you are sitting in front of a computer and the easy form I did will take them a whole 30 seconds to complete. Which isn’t much IMO for securing my services and to make sure we are speaking the same language. The language of business, that is

So, here calls a company. Agree to fee. I ask her to go to the website, read and acknowledge as it requests. So she is reading and says, well we pay usually in 3 weeks, but for no signs we pay half and I cant go against our policy. I say, well if you cant complete this, I cant do the signing. She says, can I call you back. I say sure, no problem. She calls back to say, they will have to find someone else, because she cant do this form I asked her to do.

I know what some of you are thinking and you’re thinking Im crazy for doing this, I will lose business. But I have been doing this for 3 years and the companies come and go with only a couple of signings every now and then. So Im not really losing a whole lot. I am losing though if I don’t go by my terms in the event it is a no sign or rescinded loan.

Here is the funny part. These companies know darn well if they put something in writing they are liable for it. That is why she couldn’t fill out this form, it would have held them to the terms contained in it, and whoever she asked, knew this. They also know that if the loan goes south, they aren’t going to gamble their earnings on a lost loan, but they want you to gamble your earnings for it. They want you to gamble the money you earned on the last loan you have been paid for basically is what it amounts to. Remember, we give credit and that credit has to be funded from somewhere whether it be the last loan you closed or a few before that, it is money you earned and if you choose to go by the terms of half payment if the loan doesn’t close, you are gambling money already earned.

Don’t get me wrong, there is room for dickering, Im just not going to let the company tell me what that amount to be paid should be. I will let them know what amount it needs to be. My costs are the ones being used for the signing so logically it should be my call, not theres. If they dont agree, I havent gained anything and I havent lost anything.

Im done with the comps who cant go by MY terms. They all have their terms and its time the tables were turned so that I can continue on with business and be successful by my own right. Because I like what I do and Im not giving up Dangit!!! Its going to be a long hard road, but Im convinced it will be the right road to take in this journey of holding on to my livelihood. As far as Im concerned, its my hand, my gamble, my choice to fold or play.

Thanx for listening and have a good night everyone!

Reply by Leon_CO on 3/25/08 8:48pm
Msg #240716

Last week I got a call to do a closing. Along with the confirmation was the company's payment policy. According to it, it could take up to 60 days to get paid. I told them to take me off of the closing because their payment policy is unacceptable. The next morning they called me and told me that I wouldn't be bound by that policy, and that I would be paid in 2 weeks. I got it in writing.

This is not a new concept. There are very many things that notary signing agents can negotiate. I wrote about this recently in: 'Negotiating skills for notary signing agents.' You can find it if you do a google search.

Good luck.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/25/08 8:59pm
Msg #240718

Re: Another Perspective

While I can empathize with you, Lisa, I don't completely agree with your business strategy.

If you are requiring companies you have never worked with to fill out your form (not saying you are) you might find yourself refusing work from companies that could become your future favorite companies. Companies expand and contract, at times, based on one mammoth account. The clerk you are dealing with may not have the authority to make those types of agreements at all, and the authorized personnell might just find it simpler to instruct the clerk to find another vendor than to fill out your form every time they have a closing in your area.

Accepting half of your fee for a no-sign, or not, is your choice. But if you consider that the title company is receiving exactly nothing in that event, and is even taking a loss by paying you anything (not to mention the title search and other out-of-pockets) you might reach the conclusion that it is they who are taking the gamble.

You are right, they are your terms. And the potential customer has the choice to take or leave them. But, the bigger the title company is, the more it has to lose in paying full fee for the no-sign.

I wish you success. Your new strategy may just work out well for you. I'm just offering another perspective.

Reply by tinkie on 3/25/08 9:20pm
Msg #240725

Had a new one call me today, quoted my $200, got my

confirmation, along with 2 other emails and attach'mts, wanting me to fax back 887 pages.... wanted me to sign 6 pages of legaleze....and was going to doc me for everything from taking the wrong route to the B's house to not eating a cheeseburger with onions on it before I go there. . Not to mention background checks, breathalizers, and a good solid vehicle that did'nt smoke, or I would be fined. DOUBLE if my tires were bald.

Even spelled out how much each fine would be.

Whas'sup with these co's??

Called and told them I don't do FB's, or sign contracts. AND, my truck was OLD.

They said OK. And sent me the pkg.

Reply by CF on 3/26/08 9:53am
Msg #240781

Re: Had a new one call me today, quoted my $200, got my

That was REALLY funny!!!!!!

Reply by SharonH/OH on 3/25/08 9:21pm
Msg #240726

Re: Another Perspective

"But if you consider that the title company is receiving exactly nothing in that event, and is even taking a loss by paying you anything (not to mention the title search and other out-of-pockets) you might reach the conclusion that it is they who are taking the gamble."

Have to disagree on that one. The title company is also taking a loss on their utility bills, payrolled employees, or any other expense of the business they are in. Likewise, they are paying us for a service we provide, for a set fee. We are not on commission, just a part of their expense of doing business. So long as the loan going south is through no fault of ours, we should be paid, just as any other business they contract with would expect. I don't have a website form, as Lisa does, but I HAVE begun putting a "full fee is expected" clause on my invoices.

Reply by LisaWI on 3/25/08 9:31pm
Msg #240728

Re: Another Perspective

I did already take everything you said into consideration before I did this. Its not title companies for the most part that is my concern. As a matter of fact, the title comps I do work for are more than fair on these situations and they respect the work I do. They know they are paying for my costs of doing business and they also understand that if my costs arent covered I wont be here for future closings. Its a level playing field in respect as far as that goes.

And the form is to be filled out once for each company. Not each time they call me for a signing. I probably should state that on there so thanx for mentioning that.

I know there are different perspectives and I can appreciate that. I have yet to receive multiple signings from one company, except for a title company. Its never happened with a signing service. I hear from them once in a blue moon. Ive even fallen for the "if you take a lower fee, we will call you for all the signings in your area" for it to never happen.

Thanx for the different perspective, it does matter. Personally I think title comps need to put their foot down also and get paid for the services they render. But that is another chapter.

Reply by LisaWI on 3/25/08 9:33pm
Msg #240729

Re: Oops, that was meant for Pat/IL. Sorry n/m

Reply by tinkie on 3/25/08 9:39pm
Msg #240730

Sorry Lisa, meant to say this in the other post

I think what you have done is cool. Pretty soon you will settle on a few people you will work for, and them only.

You have to remember that you are the most important person in the whole deal. It don't happen unless you close it right. So setting parameters will certainly behoove you.

Reply by LisaWI on 3/25/08 9:53pm
Msg #240734

Re: Ya Know Tinkie,

that is what my ultimate goal is. I really dont want to mess around anymore with companies who dont pay in a timely manner or who dont respect my services. We are just a number to them anyway. Thats not business, that is the DMV line where everyone acts like robots. I would rather have long lasting relationships with a few companies, than be batted around by the majority that rule.
It is a give and take isnt it

Reply by CF on 3/26/08 10:02am
Msg #240784

Just remember 80% of your business will come from

10% of your clients. I have made a pact with myself to turn down these no-namers and 1 and 2 per year jobs that I may or may not get paid on....and get paid in 4 months from now with repeated phone calls and emails....the job is worthless to me at that point.....I have lost all profitability by then. Honestly, I have not accepted orders from any "new- to - me" companies in the past 2 years...except TC's that I build relationships with. That is just the way that it has become. I have only been stiffed- 1 job through this whole big mess!!!!! I am proud to say that My thoughts are with the people that need to just say NO.

It is hard to stand by your convictions....but in the end you will be profitable and have more time to develop good accounts then chasing $$$$ from bad accounts

Reply by Renee Kovacs on 3/26/08 10:25am
Msg #240788

Oh yes you are! Just a different stake =)

Of all the bazillion times I've read this topic raised, Lisa - You have done the finest job of presenting it, I applaud you. I don't agree, but that was never a condition you put on me, was it?! Fine job ...

Anyway - no matter what you do, there's a gamble - just different stakes. In your new 'game', the gamble is that you'll lose out on a potentially satisfying client relationship over 'bureaucracy' - the vast majority of businesses forbid employees from signing ANY kind of contract, and that's a zero tolerance program. The larger the company, the more likely you'll find this. They have to send everything through someone - and with a contract, it would likely mean their legal counsel. Um ... not thinking many companies will invest the time/trouble to go through this when they don't HAVE to (we're not yet an endangered species).

In one game, you gamble losing some part of the fee - in this game, you gamble losing all that fee and any future fees from what you might find to be WAY too many clients and ALL the larger ones.

Did you have that many issues with this in the past? We're certainly seeing a huge improvement in most areas in the 'no-sign' rate with lending so buckled down now. It's a gradually fading risk, and for myself it was a risk that never reared it's head in the first place. It definitely seems to be a location-specific problem (and I would suspect a lender and/or broker specific, but not a title co-specific problem to begin with).

I know I'm odd-man out, but I do advertise that I will NOT invoice a title co (doesn't apply to SS) for a no-sign or a rescind. One way for me to sell my services w/out risking anything - in 3 years, it's cost me almost nothing.