Posted by Tonya Washington on 3/9/08 12:07am
Msg #238579

What makes a Notary a Certified Signing Agent?

I've gone through various websites that cater to Notaries and Signings and the same thing always came up. Pay this amount and take the certification course. I consider myself certified because I've done well over 2000 closings since 1999 and I'm only 26. I work for a title company and have been working for one since I was 18. So whenever I go a website, I always base my "certification" on my experience and not on some "certification" test. I've been through every situation imaginable and then some. I've dealt with hundreds of people some good and some very bad. So am I less certified because I did not take some stupid test? No offense to those that have paid the money and did not have the experience.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/9/08 12:30am
Msg #238580

ROTFLMAO! You've come to the right place!

I am not disparaging your abilities or your experience but you certainly are another in the line of individuals on this site who redefine the English language the way they think it should be.

-endorsed authoritatively as having met certain requirements; "a certified public accountant"
having quality or payment or delivery guaranteed; "certified milk"; "certified check"; "certified mail"
-certifiable: fit to be certified as insane (and treated accordingly)
-holding appropriate documentation and officially on record as qualified to perform a specified function or practice a specified skill; "a registered pharmacist"; "a registered hospital" (defined by wordnet.princeton.edu)

However you want to define it you have some excellent predecessors here who get bent when one questions their "agency" relationships or some other frivolous legal definitions. You may be competent but you are certainly not certified by your own admission, although you could certify yourself and meet the definition! Welcome home!

Reply by christiSocal on 3/9/08 12:53am
Msg #238582

There have been "certified" Notaries who came here not knowing what a venue is! Most experienced title co's or signing services would rather have experienced NSA's.
Of course you could go get certified.... The pretty piece of paper makes a great dart board!
Also, if you're somewhat certifiable, you'll fit right in here.

Reply by GA/Atty on 3/9/08 10:26am
Msg #238599

If you are not certified, you should not say that you are. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/9/08 12:00pm
Msg #238605

Agree...you may be highly experienced and tops at what

you do but by your own admission you never got certified...so you're not certified..period. JMHO

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/9/08 12:51pm
Msg #238611

COMPLETELY DISAGREE

Give me a break....

When someone shows me a national standard by which certification tests are compiled, proctored, and graded.....then it will mean something...

For anyone that wants to be a certified signing agent, my certified class will be answer 2 questions.

1) What is your name?
2) Do you have a notary stamp?

You pass.....I'll give you a certificate, and there, you are now a certified signing agent.

This is the truth of the matter..... The certification doesn't mean anything, and its simply a money making venture for various websites.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/9/08 12:55pm
Msg #238613

So what you're saying is anyone who becomes a notary

public is a certified signing agent? Although that person may NEVER have set eyes on a set of loan documents?? Now I COMPLETELY DISAGREE...MHO

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/9/08 1:20pm
Msg #238615

I agree with Linda

If you don't have experience with loan documents, then you should become a CERTIFIED signing agent. If you have experience that can be proven, then I don't think you need to be certified.

I am not a certified signing agent -- I don't have a certificate because I have never taken a 'certification test for signing agents'. However I have a degree in paralegal studies. One of my courses dealt with real estate law ..... this course also covered loan documents.

I also work for an attorney who will guide me through the loan closing process if needed (required in MA). Therefore, do I need to be a CERTIFIED SIGNING AGENT? No!

The certificate might look nice on my wall; however, I prefer the degree.

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/9/08 1:50pm
Msg #238619

Under your definition....

Someone could pass their notary exam, get their test....and then sit and retake the certification test as many times as needed to pass, and be certified by someone.....still, never laying eyes on documents, only memorizing questions.

At least my idea offered a streamlined way...... of course it was in jest, I hope you got that.

The fact is, there is NO SUCH THING as a Certified Signing Agent. It is the creation of the NNA, and other websites. This is done strictly to make money..... Why not find another way to milk poor NSA's out of their money..... OH I KNOW, CERTIFY THEM! Then...wait maybe we can give them an official .20 certificate......great idea.

Its a farce.

Reply by GA/Atty on 3/9/08 1:17pm
Msg #238614

I agree - but she said she does not have such a certificate

So the truthful answer is no, until she gets one.

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/9/08 1:52pm
Msg #238620

Under Certification Guidelines....

Could she not make her own certificate?

Since there is no governing body.....hell, anyone can just say.... I went to "ABC notary class in my city, and they gave me this certificate"....

There is no regulation, no standardization, thus, the certification is worthless.

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/9/08 1:53pm
Msg #238621

Continued......


If ANYTHING it hurts our industry, because inexperienced Notaries, and retake and retake and retake the test, get certified, and now, their so-called certification makes them equal to someone that has closed thousands upon thousands of loans?

I see it now...

"Yeah, I am available, I'm certified by so-and-so.....$50 is my fee"

And so, we screw ourselves..

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/9/08 4:28pm
Msg #238628

There should be some form of official accreditation......

I see your point now Shane.

Every legit school is accredited by an accrediting organization that is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. The "certified notary signing agent" is not officially recognized; therefore, Shane is technically right that the certification is worthless.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/9/08 4:31pm
Msg #238629

I should've written "the certificate is worthless"

not the certified notary signing agent".

Reply by GA/Atty on 3/9/08 5:07pm
Msg #238635

Re: Under Certification Guidelines....

I am not arguing as to whether any certification is worthless or not - all I am saying is that if someone asks you if you are certified or not, you should answer truthfully. I think there is an implication in the question that the certification would come from someone other than oneself.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/9/08 5:14pm
Msg #238637

OK...

...you're certified! You may answer that question truthfully from this point forward when asked that question by any interested party. Anyone care to certify me?

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/9/08 5:19pm
Msg #238640

Re: Yes! I am a certified certifyer! n/m

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/9/08 5:38pm
Msg #238647

I'm SO Grateful!

I can sleep well tonight knowing that's on my résumé.

Reply by GA/Atty on 3/9/08 5:22pm
Msg #238641

Re: OK...

I think it is further implied that they mean more than someone handing out certifications in this thread.

Common sense can be your friend........ don't expend so much effort avoiding it!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/9/08 5:35pm
Msg #238645

Just Hit the Print Button...

...& voila, you're certified with a certificate to boot. I'll vouch for its authenticity & so will everyone else on the board. What more do you want?

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/9/08 12:03pm
Msg #238606

Besides which...many of the good co's tend to avoid notaries certifed by a certain organization.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/9/08 3:09pm
Msg #238625

Re: Did Someone Say Certification?

Have you always wanted to get certified, but could never decide what to get certified at? Do you have room on your wall for a colorful, official looking certificate? Do you have ten dollars?

Well, send it to me at Pat's Certifications R Us! If you are certifiable, we will certify you! We're not like all of the other certification guys! Our certificates are printed only on really great paper with an official-looking gold foil thing at the bottom!

Please check the box if you need a rubber stamp also. We'll send it along with your colorful certificate!

Please visit us at wwww.Certifications-R-Us.com for our full line of available certifications, like:

Astronaut Certification (3 hour mandatory training course)
Grease Trap Taster Certification (no experience required)
President of Venezuela

For Your Pets:

Dogs that do really neat tricks!
Cats that sleep an awful lot!
Hamsters that don't smell too bad!

We look forward to certifying your certification certificate as soon as your check clears!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/9/08 4:39pm
Msg #238631

Correction...

...it's "an official-looking gold foil THINGIE at the bottom". Don't overlook this very important grammatical distinction. In your certification process you don't want to provide the certified with just any old certification certificate certified sans the official certification word 'thingie" inscribed. The certificate would then be certifiably uncertified.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/9/08 5:01pm
Msg #238633

Re: Thank you for the Correction...New Product Announcement

For ten buck, I...er...we will be happy to certify your grammaticalatarianism. This includes a thingie, and not just a regular old thing. For five more big ones, we will put as many of them thingies on there as will fit on our really super paper!

Love, Pat's Certification Thingies R Us

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/9/08 5:11pm
Msg #238636

Your Adherence to Proper Certification Terminology...

...is certainly (certifiably?) appreciated!

Reply by Pat/CA on 3/9/08 2:50pm
Msg #238624

Just my humble opinion...

I became certified not for a certificate, but so that I could study the loan docs pertaining to notarization and other expectations I thought I may not necessarily know.

Having prepared taxes for over 30 years and also having worked as a loan originator, I was familiar enough with the documents themselves, but not necessarily what my duties were when I brought that into the signing business.

So my feelings are that if you've done this a lot, it isn't necessary to spend money learning what you're already equipped with; but if you lack experience then by all means it's money well spent because you have a responsibility not only as a notary, but as a business professional to do things right!

So for me, it was money well spent because I studied and studied and studied and the course helped equip me to do my job correct from the 1st assignment I landed.

Hats off to those of you with years of experience. And I appreciate your willingness to share your profession on here. Thanks!

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/9/08 5:45pm
Msg #238648

Re: Just my humble opinion...

I agree with all that you said, Pat/CA. Great post.

Reply by Pat/CA on 3/9/08 6:28pm
Msg #238652

Thanks! I'll also add...

I've heard and read a lot that many companies will not use anyone who isn't certified.

However, in this age of the internet, it seems ludicrious to me for companies who would pass-up profiles of those whose history includes closing hundreds, or even thousands of loans.

Once I reach that point, THAT will be my advertising campaign, not some certificate.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/9/08 5:38pm
Msg #238646

I think the true meaning of the thread got lost in the

thread....Tonya and Shane, I see what you're both saying about just how truly credible (for lack of a better word) certification is, and I agree - to me experience says volumes more than any certification process out there right now....however, that word does carry some weight in the world of TC's and SS's and is something they somewhat rely on. To say you're "certified" when you're not is, quite simply, misrepresenting yourself and misleading companies looking to hire you and, IMO, is not exactly professional .....JMHO

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/9/08 8:47pm
Msg #238661

Re: The meaning of certification

Certification-for-profit demeans the value of certification. Until recently, any certified professionals I have encountered have been certified as possessing above average qualities in a given field. The honor was earned, and bestowed upon them by their peers, usually a trade association with an elected board of directors.

I have not seen that in relation to any NSA certification offered. That is not to say none exists, but it has so far escaped my attention. There is no reason to believe that a person with no experience should demand a higher fee than a person with years of experience. The suggestion that a certified NSA should be entitled to a higher cancellation fee is nothing short of laughable. It is simply a sales tactic (and it seems to be effective) to attract more certification fees.

If anybody finds the course material valuable, then I guess they are getting value for the money spent. However, I have not seen a big rush by those experienced NSAs on this board to become certified by any of the entities now offering certification. If meaningful certification were offered, that might change.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 3/9/08 9:05pm
Msg #238669

The only thing I learned from the NNA Certification course

was about the SE tax exemption for notary service fees. I probably would have figured it out when the time came to prepare my tax return, but I may not have kept the detailed records required so that I could separate the notary fee income from the signing agent income.

I was a notary for more than 8 years before I became a signing agent and started closing loans full time. I had notarized documents for a few loan closings during that time, but did not realize it could be a full time job until a friend told me a notary had come to her home when she refinanced her mortgage.

I have also taken and passed the Elite certification test on the numbers site. It was a lot less expensive than the NNA certification and was purely for marketing reasons to increase my visibility.

Reply by Pat/CA on 3/9/08 9:23pm
Msg #238671

Re: The meaning of certification

"If meaningful certification were offered, that might change. "

I agree completely with that. The course I took provided the basics, nothing more. It was I who searched for answers to so many questions the "basics" raised... based on my own knowledge. For those completely new to the loan field it is almost dangerous to send them out... with unlimited liabilty!!!

I state this and compare it to persons who've gone through 6 weeks crash course with the BIG tax prep companies and then are thrown out to prepare tax returns. I lasted at one for two weeks (after 20+ years in the business) and was appalled by how much the American public relies on them for services and they haven't a clue how to prepare well over 50% of the returns brought to them. Example: A client with a big box of receipts for a restaurant he opened that year... there's A LOT to know to prepare it correctly while also utilizing the tax laws to reduce his taxes. I could go on with examples but I'm sure you catch my drift.

So it's a starting point in understanding but it is by means, no degree and we all know, nothing beats experience.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/9/08 9:30pm
Msg #238672

Re: Excellent analogy, Pat/CA n/m

Reply by CJ on 3/10/08 12:41am
Msg #238681

No one has ever asked me if I am certified.

When they need email docs right now, I get the impression that they don't care about anything but that your stamp is current.

Reply by Art_MD on 3/10/08 11:56am
Msg #238704

Re: No one has ever asked me if I am certified.

Is there options if I get a certification certificate?

1. Can I get ribbons to make it realllllly official?
2. Can I get a wax seal? RED !!!!
3. Can some latin words be added? i.e. Bella Magnus Perfecto ??

Art

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/10/08 1:35pm
Msg #238722

I am a certifiable NSA

Obviously.....still hanging on in this meltdown, lol.