The National Notary Association is calling upon all Notaries to mount opposition to a proposed real estate industry reform that, if approved, threatens the jobs of Notary Signing Agents across the country. The most powerful weapon we have in defeating it is your voice.
The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has proposed rules to clarify the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA), and is now seeking comment from everyone in the industry on how they may be improved. The proposal requires the person who is presiding over a signing appointment — as part of the closing process — to read aloud a prepared script to the borrower and explain it if the person has questions. HUD is proposing the closing script as a way to more thoroughly inform borrowers of the terms of their loans and explain settlement services costs.
Notaries, however, are prohibited by law from explaining the terms and conditions found in closing documents.
Though the NNA supports HUD’s desire to pass reforms in the name of consumer protection, one aspect of the proposal — the so-called “closing script” — could cripple Signing Agents’ ability to attend the signing appointment, notarize documents and act as a courier. If this federal rule is enacted, Notary Signing Agents could be barred from the table in every state, regardless of current statute or practice. That is why we’re asking you to help us fight the rules by sending your comments to HUD.
The NNA has prepared formal comments which have been sent to HUD. Please take a moment to read this document, and then send comments to the agency in your own words by the deadline of May 13. It’s important for comments to be unique since template responses are treated as one single response. Please touch on the following issues in your comments:
The closing script presents additional costs, delays and liability for everyone in the mortgage industry. HUD should provide viable alternatives to the script that wouldn’t force any one group to shoulder this responsibility If alternatives aren’t provided, the script should be eliminated HUD strongly encourages people to submit comments electronically through the Federal eRulemaking Portal at www.regulations.gov. You must refer to “Docket No. FR-5180-P-01 and the title “Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA)roposed Rules To Simplify and Improve the Process of Obtaining Mortgages and Reduce Consumer Settlement Costs” on your submission.
Thank you for supporting the NNA’s effort to preserve the jobs of Notaries across the nation.
Sincerely, Timothy S. Reiniger Executive Director National Notary Association
Reply by Maureen_nh on 5/2/08 11:01pm Msg #246027
Which law is it that says "Notaries, however, are prohibited by law from explaining the terms and conditions found in closing documents."
Reply by Nicolette Releford on 5/4/08 4:11pm Msg #246265
In Louisiana, which is the only Civil Law state in the country, a notary cannot practice law. We are expressly prohibited from explaining terms and conditions to the borrower. That is considered praticing law.
Reply by Becca_FL on 5/2/08 11:08pm Msg #246028
Hello again, Dick Silver, with all your propaganda.
This topic has been discussed on the board for weeks now.
If you're new, he's been pulling this crap for years.
Why is it that he only surfaces to promote BS NNA crap?
Reply by desktopfull on 5/3/08 1:56am Msg #246045
Re: Hello again, Dick Silver, with all your propaganda.
NNA must be afraid of losing all that money they are racking up selling their NSA seminars, etc. Yikes, they might actually have to go back to work to help notaries instead of promoting their various business ventures!!!!
Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/3/08 3:36pm Msg #246162
Hello again, Dick
Reply by MichiganAl on 5/3/08 12:36am Msg #246039
Re: ALERT - Yawnnnnnn
First of all, thank you for copying and pasting a letter we've all seen and already extensively discussed on this forum. Now let me say this: I hate the script. I think it's ridiculous to have someone read 7 to 10 pages word for word. That said, I have a few questions for you:
How can reading a pre-prepared script word for word be practicing law?
How does having a script threaten signing agents? Or does it only threaten those who say, "Well golly, I'm just a notary. I can't do anything but point to the signature line so I certainly can't read something out loud." And if it does threaten the worthless do nothing point and sign paper weight notary, why should any of us care?
And finally, what is your business relationship with the NNA? Because I certainly sense that you've got some stake in this other than as our knight in shining armor.
Geez, the wild propaganda and misinformation is just unbelievable. What's next? Is the NNA going to start dropping leaflets from airplanes?
Wait, I do have one more question. Exactly how dumb do they think we are?
Reply by PAW on 5/3/08 7:48am Msg #246060
Here's a thought
Maybe the ones that are threatened at the thought of having to read a prepared script is because they don't know how to read. We all know there are some that have a difficult time expressing themselves when they write, maybe they also don't understand the words.
Reply by NCLisa on 5/3/08 8:02am Msg #246065
Reading a script is not UPL!
The script as seen on the hud site http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/res/200803/instruc.pdf is what some lenders now call the "plain english" statement in a loan package.
For those of you that truly believe the NNA guidelines that say a NSA keeps their mouth shut and just points and says sign here, you need to find a new profession. An NSA scans the documents with the borrower and says "your interest rate is..." "your first payment is...." "there is no prepayment penalty on this loan". If a 10 year old can find it on a document and point it out and read it, it is not UPL! If you render an opinion or give advice about the loan, that is UPL. Escrow officers in escrow states and TC closers in TC states are not attorneys. They go over all the docs and give no advice and render no opinions. Giving legal advice would be explaining the different way the borrowers can hold title (as JTWROS, or CP, or TIC) Now telling someone if the loan is good for them or not, would just be stupidity, as you aren't their accountant or their estate planner, so you would not know if a loan is financially beneficial in any way to the borrower (and a real estate attorney would not either).
This will be a script put together by either the lender or TC, and reading a script is not UPL! If this script were really UPL, then all the escrow and TC will need to hire attorneys to do their closings.
Reply by PAW on 5/3/08 8:18am Msg #246070
Re: Reading a script is not UPL!
>>> Giving legal advice would be explaining the different way the borrowers can hold title (as JTWROS, or CP, or TIC) <<<
As a title closer, we are required to explain the different ways a person, or persons, can hold title. It is not UPL to do so. However, to suggest which way the person or persons should hold title is. They need to make the decision, but they also need to know what the options are. Explaining the options is not advice or opinion, just facts. (We have a sheet of paper that explains the different ways title can be held in FL.)
Reply by NCLisa on 5/3/08 8:22am Msg #246074
Re: Reading a script is not UPL!
In CA as an EO we could give the borrowers a handout on the different ways to hold title, but we were not permitted to go over it, as it was UPL. They were told to discuss it with their accountants and estate planners.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 12:59pm Msg #246145
No disrepect for your opinion intended, Paul...but...
You said, "As a title closer, we are required to explain the different ways a person, or persons, can hold title."
Okay...are you referring to people who work FOR a title company or are you referring to people like the ones who read this board.
If you mean the latter, you're way over the heads of most...and honestly, I don't think I agree with that under the Texas law of UPL...even for title company personnel conducting a closing.
In my experience, a lawyer is behind the determination of how someone takes title depending on who they are working for. Explaining the differences could generate discussion that might persuade someone to/not to sign documents. If the question comes up (why is it JTROS, or otherwise), I want someone else to go into that discussion with them, not me.
Maybe I don't understand what you are saying.
Reply by PAW on 5/3/08 1:28pm Msg #246146
Re: No disrepect for your opinion intended, Paul...but...
>>> You said, "As a title closer, we are required to explain the different ways a person, or persons, can hold title."
Okay...are you referring to people who work FOR a title company or are you referring to people like the ones who read this board. <<<
A title closer is one who works for a title company, either as an employee or contractor. I perform title closings for a few local title companies. In that role, it is expected that I inform the buyer(s) of the different ways they can hold title. Typically, in a refi, this issue is never brought up, since FL is a mortgage state and as such, title doesn't change.
>>> If you mean the latter, you're way over the heads of most...and honestly, I don't think I agree with that under the Texas law of UPL...even for title company personnel conducting a closing. <<<
I tend to agree with you on the most part, that most NSA's it may be over their head. But for those who do purchase closings, this is something they must know and be able to present to the buyers. I doubt that stating the different ways one can hold title would be considered UPL anywhere. Giving an opinion, recommendation, or advice on what the buyer/borrower should choose, would certainly be UPL in most, if not all, states.
>>> In my experience, a lawyer is behind the determination of how someone takes title depending on who they are working for. Explaining the differences could generate discussion that might persuade someone to/not to sign documents. If the question comes up (why is it JTROS, or otherwise), I want someone else to go into that discussion with them, not me. <<<
It's just like explaining WHAT a mortgage is. But you can't go into the details of the legal ramifications of any of the parts. Same with the vesting. If there are any questions of WHY or HOW DO I, then you need to refer them to an attorney or their closing/settlement agent.
In the almost 10 years of doing this, I don't ever remember anyone asking WHY. But just about always, I'm asked WHAT are the options.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 2:26pm Msg #246156
Re: No disrepect for your opinion intended, Paul...but...
**If there are any questions of WHY or HOW DO I, then you need to refer them to an attorney or their closing/settlement agent.**
Great. Thanks. That makes sense.
Reply by OConnor Title Guaranty, Inc. - Closing Department on 5/4/08 2:57am Msg #246199
Re: No disrepect for your opinion intended, Paul...but...
"I doubt that stating the different ways one can hold title would be considered UPL anywhere. Giving an opinion, recommendation, or advice on what the buyer/borrower should choose, would certainly be UPL in most, if not all, states."
In my experience, most people don't have a clue as to the legal ramifications involved with the different tenancies unless they are explained. So, what's the point of listing them?
The manner in which title is held will impact people in different ways, considering their circumstances. It should be a matter taken up with an attorney long beforer the closing. Sadly, it probably is not in most cases..
Reply by sue_pa on 5/4/08 9:58am Msg #246217
Totally agree
Listing the various options to a layperson is probably useless without detailed explaination and certainly will open questions. Most states have marital presumptions but there are also alternatives. I do A LOT of purchases and can only remember a small handful of times having this discussion at the table - the deed is prepared before I show up. The few times I've been asked, "Ask them how they want to hold title?" I refuse - again, not a discussion I want to get into, especially with unmarried couples. When I worked in a law office, EVERY time we had a closing for an unmarried couple (often times we were weeks away from the wedding) he advised them against holding title as joint tenants w/rights of survivorship, especially when one was bringing considerably more money to the deal than the other. I cannot ever recall an instance where his advice was taken.
Reply by MonicaFL on 5/3/08 8:31am Msg #246083
I propose that the L/O read the script
to the borrower - then maybe we wouldn't have to waste so much time at the closing table. That also might help the L/O understand his/her job too. This just seems as another way to sluff off the L/O's duties onto the notary.
Reply by Nicolette Releford on 5/4/08 4:15pm Msg #246266
Re: I propose that the L/O read the script
I agree. By the time the borrowers are at the signing table, all of their questions should be answered by the L/O.
roposed Rules To Simplify and Improve the Process of Obtaining Mortgages and Reduce Consumer Settlement Costs” on your submission.