Posted by Tony_FL on 5/8/08 9:04am
Msg #246663

ANOTHER New York ID issue ...

Mr. Chamblin (notary) failed to go to the state Department of Motor Vehicle's Web site to verify the authenticity of the driver's licenses of the two persons who allegedly were impersonating David and Naomi Edwards when they sought to have their signatures on the powers of attorney notarized.

He is being sued for $330,000. In denying the notary's motion for summary judgment, Queens Justice Orin R. Kitzes ruled that the notary could be held liable for failing to ask those individuals whose powers of attorneys he notarized "do you swear or affirm that the signatures you have affixed to this document are true?"

Full story:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nylj/PubArticleNY.jsp?hubtype=TopStories&id=1202421211019

Reply by WDMD on 5/8/08 9:07am
Msg #246665

"Mr. Chamblin (notary) failed to go to the state Department of Motor Vehicle's Web site to verify the authenticity of the driver's licenses of the two persons who allegedly were impersonating David and Naomi Edwards when they sought to have their signatures on the powers of attorney notarized."

In New York you can go to a website to verify someones drivers license?

Reply by Tony_FL on 5/8/08 9:15am
Msg #246667

That's what the judge said. The two people had photo licenses that they used. I can't see WHY it should be OUR responsibility to make sure that the ID is VALIDLY issued ALSO.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 5/8/08 9:19am
Msg #246670

"In New York you can go to a website to verify someones drivers license?"

That would be nice if Massachusetts had some kind of online database like that. If we (notaries) question the validity of a persons ID, we could simply go online and pull up the persons information.

I wonder if in NY they also show a persons pic. IMO, if they did that in every State, the crimes of fraud and/or identity theft would go down.

Reply by WDMD on 5/8/08 9:22am
Msg #246671

"That would be nice if Massachusetts had some kind of online database like that. If we (notaries) question the validity of a persons ID, we could simply go online and pull up the persons information.

I wonder if in NY they also show a persons pic. IMO, if they did that in every State, the crimes of fraud and/or identity theft would go down."



IMO, if they did that fraud WOULD increase.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/8/08 10:01am
Msg #246686

"In New York you can go to a website to verify someones drivers license? "

If there's anything on the NY DMV site that enables you to check the validity of someone else's license, they've hidden it well. I've never heard of it, but I'm certainly going to look into it, just out of curiosity. Even if it's possible, it's not the notary's responsibility to do this (the judge did reject the argument) - we're not even required to use a DL as ID. Plus, it's not practical.

The real issue appears to be that the notary didn't take an oath for the jurat - he just signed and stamped. There's case law in NY that holds notaries liable if they neglect to administer an oath.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/8/08 10:11am
Msg #246690

You can check in Florida

for the validity of a Florida drivers license. No personal info, just tells you if the license is valid.

https://www6.hsmv.state.fl.us/dlcheck/dlcheckinq

Reply by WDMD on 5/8/08 10:28am
Msg #246695

Re: You can check in Florida

"No personal info, just tells you if the license is valid."

Just being able to check an ID's validity would not help me. I can just look at the expiration date on the ID presented to get the same information. If someone presented a fake ID trying to steal someones identity, as long as whoevers identification they were stealing had a unexpired ID it would still come back as a unexpired ID wouldn't it?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/8/08 12:07pm
Msg #246720

Re: You can check in Florida

"they were stealing had a unexpired ID it would still come back as a unexpired ID wouldn't it?"

I think if it had been reported as stolen it would indicate that the license had been reported stolen.
I checked once for someone's license, and found it had been revoked.

Probably wouldn't help with notary work, but was just pointing out that you can check the validity of a Florida DL online.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/8/08 9:18am
Msg #246669

That's crazy to expect notaries to go to the DMV website and determine if the licenses were legitimate. I don't think it's even possible to do that due to privacy reasons (but I wouldn't know about New York DMV). I'm fairly certain that is not a service offered on the Virginia DMV website, unless you have a PIN number for your own license to look up your own information.

<<In order for a notarization to be valid, he explained, the notary must ask the signer to attest to the validity of his signature and the signer must answer in the affirmative.>>

I never ask this. What I DO ask is, "Do you swear or affirm that the contents of the document are true to the best of your knowledge?" I do not ask them to swear that their signature is valid. Of course, if that is required in New York, then the notary should have done it. But I wouldn't know about NY notary laws. I agree with the guy who said that 98% of notaries do not administer an oath when required.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/8/08 10:08am
Msg #246689

<<In order for a notarization to be valid, he explained, the notary must ask the signer to attest to the validity of his signature and the signer must answer in the affirmative.>>

Not exactly - we are not required to do that, unless it's an acknowledgment that was not signed in our presence.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/8/08 10:36am
Msg #246697

I guess that's why I've heard NY notaries are required to carry $500K E&O. This is a crazy scenario and the ultimate "blame the notary". I've heard that NY is notorious for its law suits against notaries. I don't think I'd even be interesting in working under that pressure.

Reply by DonR_NYC on 5/8/08 11:06am
Msg #246709

1) NYS DMV has no on line service to check driver's license or state issued ID cards.
2) There is no requirement for a bond or E&O insurance in NYS.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/8/08 5:35pm
Msg #246770

<< I guess that's why I've heard NY notaries are required to carry $500K E&O >>

This is news to me - we're not required to carry ANY E&O insurance, nor do we need a bond. Where did you get this info?

<< I've heard that NY is notorious for its law suits against notaries. >>

Again, where did you get this info? There IS case law in NY having to do with notaries, but virtually all of it involves failing to administer an oath, taking an acknowledgment improperly (e.g., over the phone), or failing to ID the signer - basic notarial no-nos committed by notaries who have no clue about what they're supposed to be doing. It's like they study all this stuff on order to pass the exam, and then promptly erase that portion of their memory banks. I don't know that we have more litigation involving notaries than any other state, but we do seem to have a lot of incompetent notaries...

Case in point - I was at a friend's house when a notary showed up with her refi papers. Not only was he stamping and signing papers before she got a chance to sign them and not administering an oath for the jurats, but after he finished up and left (as I started telling her how screwed up the signing was), he came back asking to see her ID!

Other friends asked me to notarize some medical documents for them. One of the docs had no notarial block, and they had no idea whether they needed an ack or a jurat. I told them to call whoever sent them the papers and ask what they wanted, and I'd come back to finish it. Instead, to save time, the wife went to a bank with the paper (signed by both of them), and the notary there said "No problem" - she found a blank space on the page, signed her name, and applied her stamp below that...

Reply by MW/VA on 5/8/08 9:27pm
Msg #246820

I was referring to a post on another site a while back from a NYC notary. That is what he claimed to be factual?????

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/8/08 10:20pm
Msg #246828

He's dead wrong on the E&O - there is no such requirement in NY.

Whether or not NY is notorious for litigation against notaries is a matter of personal opinion rather than a factual statement. I see more stories in the news about notary litigation in CA than I do about it in NY, but that certainly doesn't mean it happens more often in CA than it does in NY; maybe I'm just reading the wrong newspapers. It's kind of hard to prove one way or the other without doing actual research in a law library, and my guess is he hasn't done that.

It may be that his perception of the litigation against notaries has led him to take out a $500K E&O policy, but as my Mom used to say to me, "If your friends jump off the roof of the building, does that mean you have to jump off too?"

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/8/08 11:21am
Msg #246710

Even if an online ID-checking facility did exist, ...

... how would we use it for _every_ notarial act?r "Before we sign the papers tomorrow, fax me a copy of your drivers' licenses today." Yeah. Right.

We meet in a Dunkin Donuts to do the Power of Attorney so that your brother can take care of things while you're at sea. You called 20 minutes ago in a panic. You have no access to a fax or the Internet, so you can't send me a copy of your DL, even if you wanted to. "Umm, gee. Can't notarize your signature 'cause I can't verify your DL. Sorry." Uh huh. Sure.