Posted by Tish/CA on 5/23/08 6:45pm
Msg #248566

Complaints directed to FBI/IC3

OK - to all you naysayers, here's an email I just received from IC3.
I'll let you know what happens...BTW, this was sent to three of us.


I received all of your IC3 complaints. I spoke with Docuserv today and provided your information to them. They said the problem is they were not paid for the document signings by the Mortgage Companies. They said they would try and resolve this matter with you. Please contact me if you do not hear from them within the next week or two. Contact me with any questions you have.



Detective Joe Monroe
Computer Crimes
Specialized Investigations Unit
1 Civic Center Plaza
Irvine, CA. 92623
(949) 724-7174

Reply by DebbieT on 5/23/08 6:58pm
Msg #248569

Re: Good to hear that the FBI has stepped in. n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/23/08 7:19pm
Msg #248574

I don't know what IC3 is but....

... the FBI does not have "Detectives".

You're dealing with local police here, not the FBI, so don't confuse the two. It's great that you were able to get the locals involved, but please don't spread the myth that the FBI is going to step in and work with us to collect on bad debts.

Reply by PAW on 5/23/08 7:52pm
Msg #248577

IC3 = Internet Crime Complaint Center

The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C), and the Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA).

IC3's mission is to serve as a vehicle to receive, develop, and refer criminal complaints regarding the rapidly expanding arena of cyber crime. The IC3 gives the victims of cyber crime a convenient and easy-to-use reporting mechanism that alerts authorities of suspected criminal or civil violations. For law enforcement and regulatory agencies at the federal, state, local and international level, IC3 provides a central referral mechanism for complaints involving Internet related crimes.

Source: IC3 webpage (www.IC3.gov)

Reply by Negrete on 5/23/08 8:59pm
Msg #248586

Re: IC3 = Internet Crime Complaint Center

Awesome find Paul.

Are you going to post URL for the IC3 on your web sites ?

I am thinking about adding it to my home page.

Anthony J Negrete

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/23/08 10:59pm
Msg #248605

Re: IC3 = Internet Crime Complaint Center

Thanks, Paul...

But we're talking about the Feds here... does anyone seriously think these guys are going to be bill collectors? There's a real disconnect between the expectations some people have and reality.

I can imagine how this works - it's Monday morning at IC3 headquarters, and the overworked staff is trying to figure out what to do next: Let's see, we've got a report of 5 million credit card numbers stolen by a gang of hackers, a major bank is reporting a cyber attack that has compromised the accounts of 200,000 customers, and... what's this? Joe Notary from Seattle is complaining that he got stiffed for $150 by some outfit in California? Dammit, they're at it again! Put everything else on hold - we have to make sure Joe Notary gets paid!

This isn't directed at you or anyone in particular, but there's a definite lack of critical thinking skills involved in this whole discussion...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/23/08 7:48pm
Msg #248576

Joe Monroe is a detective with the Irvine Police Dept, the complaints were probably forwarded to him.

Reply by James Schultz on 5/23/08 8:50pm
Msg #248584

Local police or the federal government, it makes no difference to me as it puts these crooks on notice that they are being looked at.This should be enough to drive these deadbeats out of the business.We all need to report these crooks each and every time and make their lives as miserable as possible.( JMHO)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/23/08 9:12pm
Msg #248587

I would say the FBI forwarded the complaint to the local police unit, but I am sure they would follow up.

Was great that Tish got a follow up to her complaint. Smart move on her part to file the complaint.

I agree that these companies that don't pay should be put out of business.
They give the rest of us signing services a bad name.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 5/23/08 10:20pm
Msg #248597

Did you check with thr motgage co
If so, document it.

Reply by christiSocal on 5/24/08 1:09am
Msg #248611

Ummm, maybe this is the way to go with Notary Connection??? n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/24/08 7:31am
Msg #248613

I think this is a great way to hopefully get those companies who never pay ANYBODY (SOX) and also those companies that close up shop owing many (CTC NOTARY, UNITED NOTARIES, ALL-PRO) and then reopen a new shop doing the exact same business (GOLDEN BEAR, DEAN NOTARIES, X-PRESS SIGNATURES), all the while ignoring the debts of the first business.

I can't see law enforcement or the FEDS stepping in for one complaint, but for multiple and numerous complaints of fraud, hopefully yes!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/24/08 8:35am
Msg #248618

"I can't see law enforcement or the FEDS stepping in for one complaint, but for multiple and numerous complaints of fraud, hopefully yes!"

It would have to be a LOT of complaints, and probably for a significant amount of money, before the Feds stepped in. Local law enforcement might get involved, if they don't have a lot else on their plate - it's all about priorities. Doesn't hurt to try, in that case - the worst that could happen is that they ignore you.

If the company you're after BELIEVES that the Feds or local law might get involved, however, the THREAT of filing a complaint might be enough to get them to pay. That doesn't mean that filing a complaint will actually get results.

Reply by Mia on 5/24/08 11:07am
Msg #248636

Here is some info.....

This is only part of the information I found. Check the website for more information.

http://www.precisesecurity.com/computer-articles/ca-0002-fraud.htm

Internet Fraud and Online Scams
Posted: 22-Sept-05


"Any fraudulent solicitation of money, information or things of any value by means of email, websites, bulletin boards, blogs can be considered internet fraud.

Internet Fraudsters keep on finding new methods of using the Internet to scam innocent consumers and online users, which is said to be the common targets. This fraud is very popular because of its anonymity and less risk involved. Added to the fact that not so many countries are already ready to face this disaster and have strong policies and law to pursue
the case against the suspected fraudster.

Fraud on the Internet includes, but is not limited to: fraudulent or fake web sites, untrustworthy websites, phishing (fishing) for personal information with fraudulent emails, Online auction frauds - buyers and sellers, increased Nigerian 419 Advance Fee Fraud, Lottery Advance Fee Scams, Business Opportunities & Work from Home Scams, International Modem Dialing and Cramming, and credit card fraud."

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 5/24/08 12:32pm
Msg #248639

Re: Here is some info.....

I think if a detective called me regarding a non payment issue I would pay the complaining party, ASAP.
I know first hand that a call will be made but there is no way, the FBI-or local authorities will proceed with legal measure unless the total owing amount is very high. Eventually they will tell you to take it to small claims. Proving fraud is not always easy.

I ran into this with a real scammer, (I mean someone who really did deceive, not a signing company you ran into some financial trouble, I believe most of these companies did not start out trying to rip signing agents off. )
This man stole a $1900.00 Bose stereo system, by paying by stolen credit card through pay pal.
Orange County fraud department said, even though they could easily find this person through phone numbers that they had, the amount was just not enough to take seriously. They had much bigger fish to fry.
I thought $1900.00 was huge, but they have files of over 1 million dollars for internet fraud that they had trouble with man power to have them prosecuted.

With any luck just the phone call will often do the trick.

Acme notary services for those who remember them, I have a judgment of $1600.00 and they skipped to Vegas, opened up a signing company there, did it to lots of people out there. The authorities told a handful of people its just not enough money to proceed.
Its not that these authorities dont want to fix the problem, its just too wide spread.
LB

Reply by Mia on 5/24/08 2:25pm
Msg #248645

Re: Here is some info.....

LB said: "I think if a detective called me regarding a non payment issue I would pay the complaining party, ASAP."
One would hope that the "complaining party" wouldn't have to go that route.

I've been around a long time, and remember "Acme Notary" -- I was lucky to avoid their thieving.

Going to Small Claims Court takes time & effort, but can be just as effective. In my State if you go to Small Claims and the defendant doesn't show for the Court date, then you have to set another Court date and time, if the defendant doesn't show for that court date then the Judge files a bench warrant. The warrant goes out, and you just sit back and wait until they get pulled over by the Police or the Police go to their business or residence --- this may take a short amount of time or longer. Eventually they will have to pay way more than they originally owed (interest & fines etc.).
Of course the disclaimer.... I am not an Attorney and can not give legal advise blah blah blah blah. Check with Legal Counsel in regards to your legal matters.

..

Reply by PAW on 5/24/08 3:44pm
Msg #248651

May not be considered internet fraud.

I asked my neighbor (local sheriff's department detective) about whether or not non-payment would be considered an "internet crime" and he said he doubts it very seriously.* However, he continued to say the the FTC and State Attorney might be interested. (He also reminded me that he isn't an attorney so take what he says for what it's worth. )

* The reason he doesn't think it would be internet fraud is because the buyer (the notary in this case) didn't contract for goods or services over the internet, but via a phone call establishing the business relation. The internet was merely the vehicle of communication for the confirmation and possibly the "goods" (e.g. the document package). There isn't a buy/sell contract conducted via the internet.

However, there still may be some "internet" problems since the fraud, or scam, was perpetuated through the internet, even if it wasn't perpetrated via the web.

Reply by James Schultz on 5/24/08 6:23pm
Msg #248660

Re: May not be considered internet fraud.

If I'm not mistaken Paul, putting the offer for services in writing is what makes the contract enforceable and legal. A verbal contract isn't worh the paper it's written on. JMHO

Reply by PAW on 5/24/08 8:55pm
Msg #248678

Re: May not be considered internet fraud.

Verbal contracts are just as binding as written ones. ( Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Co. v. Robinson, 233 U.S. 173) It's just that a verbal agreement is often difficult to prove. Unless there is a communication exchange explicitly agreeing to the intent, there is no contract. A confirmation is just that... confirming the agreement. The proof of the pudding will be when a case actually goes to court and a decision is rendered whether or not the verbal exchange and/or the confirmation constitutes an enforceable agreement between the parties.

Reply by Yvonne Boyd on 7/25/08 2:34pm
Msg #256845

I also have been trying to get payment from NC, Bobby even emailed me to say that he was getting the checks out very soon. I heard that you can go after the title company since they benefited from the transaction, kinda like a roofing supply company that puts a lien on your home in case the roofer skips town with your money, you would still owe them since you benefited from the goods. Do you think this is a true stmt? Please advise any help would be appreciated.

Reply by Tina Geiger on 10/30/08 11:31am
Msg #268652

Has anyone had any luck contacting Notary Connection or Gloria Mar? I closed a loan in June and still have not received payment. I found them on this site, but not befoe I did the signing. I can't get an answer from any of the numbers that I have, however the fax seems to be working. I have sent invoices to every email address that I have and have contacted the company that hired them and found out that they were paid for their services as well as mine. Any info would be appreciated.