I saw the following license plate on a Prius Hybrid this morning: "KMAOPEC". Once I figured it out, I was laughing so hard, I nearly ran off the road!
Reply by A-1 Signing Agents, LLC on 5/13/08 6:38am Msg #247227
I Love that. Good for them. I'm sure someone will be offended and fight that. Like those who were offended at the right to life plates some time ago. God forbid we voice an opinion.
Reply by lindab on 5/13/08 7:00am Msg #247229
I think that we should round up all the oil executives that are making bizillions of dollars and put them adrift in the ocean. Anchor their rafts in the middle of the oil tanker routes and see how many survive. Those that do survive will be forced to distribute 90% of their profits back to the people that use gas to WORK FOR A LIVING. Pretty soon no one will be able to afford to go to work.
Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/13/08 8:19am Msg #247231
While I agree about the huge oil profits...
I don't think we all have a grip on just how serious this is. Yes gas is high, anything oil based has risen dramatically. This weekend I saw a gas station that reminded me of the days (if you're old enough to remember) of gas shortage when we all had specific days we could buy gas (if it was available). This was in a Wal-mart super store and I asked the guy collecting buggies what the heck was going on. He said it had been that was ALL DAY because they were "speculating" a nickel increase! Speculators, folks just like you and I, rather than visiting forums are buying "paper oil" and everyone else...their neighbors and families, are paying for that at the pumps. Business is closing, mom and pop stations are closing, anything that has plastic involved is expensive and the farmer cannot possibly grow food for our nation without charging accordingly. If you want to be angry with someone be angry with Joe Blow who is at this very moment driving up ALL prices with a simple "click".
Reply by jba/fl on 5/13/08 8:36am Msg #247234
Re: While I agree about the huge oil profits...
"If you want to be angry with someone be angry with Joe Blow who is at this very moment driving up ALL prices with a simple "click"." yep.
One thing that I have noticed lately is the number of people walking with gas cans on major roadways, usually in the direction of gas stations. People are just not able to sustain the car as they once did. More promotions are needed for car pooling, busses, trains: any kind of mass transportation. This used to be pushed constantly, now I don't hear it as much. Or, maybe I'm just out of the loop staying at home so much.
Reply by jba/fl on 5/13/08 8:41am Msg #247235
Re: While I agree about the huge oil profits...
"the farmer cannot possibly grow food for our nation "
He cannot because he is being paid to grow non-food corn at the expense of our hungar, which is next to come.
Reply by DebbieT on 5/13/08 8:58am Msg #247237
Re: They should have let us drill our own oil like we wanted
to a long time ago. What about coal??? That also would work. We have that too.
Reply by Carole Breckbill on 5/13/08 9:25am Msg #247240
That's only part of the "solution." We also need to round up all the auto execs who only make large vehicles where they make the most money, and forget that there are still people out here who want smaller, more efficient cars.
Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/13/08 10:08am Msg #247242
Carole, they wouldn't make the large vehicles if
people weren't buying them. I personally have a large SUV. I refuse to give it up and will buy another when the time comes. I have an extended version where I can carry up to 8 people. If I didn't have this, then my family would have to take 2 cars when we went somewhere. This way we can all go together, thus saving gas. So, as you can see, it can work both ways.
Reply by Tish/CA on 5/13/08 10:52am Msg #247246
Re: Carole, they wouldn't make the large vehicles if
It's called supply and demand. Simple economics and I personally don't want any governmental agency telling me or the automakers what we can or cannot purchase/manufacture. The problem is with the environmental nut cases out there who would sink their own nation rather than risk the chance of losing a few of carribu in ANWR or the California/hollywood elite lobbying to prevent drilling off shore where we have vast amounts of crude oil! Yikes, maybe this should be taken over to politics....
Reply by jba/fl on 5/13/08 10:59am Msg #247248
Re: Carole, they wouldn't make the large vehicles if
I have always wondered if we are saving our oil for when the rest of the world runs out. There are only finite barrels out there, it is a matter of time.
BTW, I got an email this am about how to convert my car to water. Don't think I will try, but interesting approach nonetheless.
Reply by LKT/CA on 5/13/08 11:47am Msg #247255
People drive too fast....
.....in those big SUV's and wonder why their tanks are empty again in two days. Then they gripe about high gas prices when they are part of their own problem. On the freeway those gas guzzling dinosaurs pass me like I'm sitting still. I started driving like "the little old lady from Pasadena" to keep from burning gas too fast.
I was a kid during the "odd/even" days of getting gas in the 70's and remember them vividly. Life is just a series of valleys and mountain tops, then valleys again, then we're on the mountain top. So really, nothing is new under the sun.
Reply by PA_Notary_II on 5/13/08 12:18pm Msg #247264
Drilling our own wells
won't help. We don't have the refineries to make gas out of crude...and the oil cos. won't build them. They would rather send domestic crude overseas for refining and then ship it back to the US for sale at the same price we're paying now. More profit for them, SOS for us. Profit, Profit Profit. I am hoping that someone who has the knowledge gets really, really PO'd and decides to make an affordable, reliable electric like the EV1 that the manufacturer killed a few years back. THAT... will be true independence from oil barons.
Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/13/08 12:54pm Msg #247272
Electric Vehicles, but where does the electricity come from?
Everyone hates petroleum, scared to death of nuclear, coal is dirty and the dams are destroying the ecosystem. Where to get electricity from? Don't tell me wind and solar. In my area the environmentalists are fighting wave energy, in Maine they did the same to tidal, wind and solar only exist because they are subsidized: there is no economic reason to build either. How come no one is screaming for hydrogen. H2 would be the way to go, you could still have your politically incorrect SUV and the exhaust is only water vapor. H2 is now cheaper than petroleum. People are sheep and so everyone jumps on the electrical bandwagon. Duh, you just plug it in, who cares where the electricity comes from. But what the heck do I know, I'm only a power plant design engineer. You think fuel lines are bad wait until you have electric vehicles and there are rolling blackouts.
Reply by Dennis Larson on 5/13/08 2:02pm Msg #247281
Brazil, the fifth largest country in the world,.......
imports no oil !
Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jew3ah24Zj4
Reply by jba/fl on 5/13/08 3:41pm Msg #247295
Re: Brazil, the fifth largest country in the world,.......
Interesting that originally cars were designed to run on alcohol, gas came later. Why the switch I wonder?
Reply by Dennis Larson on 5/13/08 3:53pm Msg #247300
Because John D Rockefeller didn't want the
competition. So, he gave the Women's Christian Temperance Society 4 million dollars to lobby congress for prohibition, and eliminate the competition. For 13 years no alcohol of any kind was produced (legally).
Reply by Dennis Larson on 5/13/08 4:17pm Msg #247306
Oh, and btw
Sweden has a distribution system for vehicles that run on alcohol. Alcohol has an octane rating of 105, which means that the fuel can be compressed more than gasoline before firing. Our gasoline engines do not run efficiently on alcohol, but an engine that is designed to run on alcohol can get in excess of 22% better mileage than a gasoline engine. Saab makes a 400 horsepower all alcohol engine that is 1/3 the weight of an equivalent gasoline engine.
Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/13/08 5:41pm Msg #247314
Ok so what is the specific heat difference?
Also you can increase horsepower by increasing RPMs, the Japanese do it all the time, look at the Xterra. It is not so simple to compare apples to oranges because the jalapenos get in the way. You are all over the board tossing out figures that have no correlation to each other or to anything else. So now we are selling horsepower by wieght? If that were the case no airplane would ever take off. This has to be one of the silliest concepts I've ever heard.
Reply by Dennis Larson on 5/13/08 6:53pm Msg #247318
Re: Ok so what is the specific heat difference?
Well ok Charles, the specific heat of ethanol is 2.44 j/g degrees C. While gasoline is 2.22 j/g degrees C. So then, the difference would be 0.22 j/g degrees C.
And while ethanol (not to be confused with blends) is 100% grain alcohol, and as of 2007, is the fuel used in Indy race cars! http://www.helium.com/items/199413-common-fuels-these-leaded
I have no idea how the Xterra fits in here.
Reply by PA_Notary_II on 5/13/08 2:06pm Msg #247282
I agree...but
right now the consumer has *NO* options. Since EV's are known technology, readily available, they make sense at least in the short term. Electricity can be generated from many sources....not just oil or coal. H2 is an alternative, but aren't you then allowing a 'market' for it along with supply problems...delivery problems...and having it subject to the same price fluctuations as gasoline? Electric cars can be put in service right now if someone will build them. With H2, you have to rely on not only the manufacture of the car, but also conversion of service stations for delivery and price manipulations by virtually the same corps that have us by the short hairs now. Give me an alternative now...not ten years down the road.
Reply by John_NorCal on 5/13/08 2:58pm Msg #247286
Re: I agree...but
I'm with you on that, let's get an alternative now. But we do need to work towards total independence and H2 is probabably the way to go. Question is, can we as a united people work towards and demand that the infrastructure for H2 be implemented.
Oh c____, this should probably be in the political tab!
Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/13/08 5:52pm Msg #247315
Do you think that in 1905 there was a gas station on every
corner???? Of course it has to be developed but as in everything in life one finds very quickly in engineering that when you get something you have to give something up. H2 gives up very little. The absolute best source of cheap electricity is nuclear, no smokestacks and don't start telling me about all the radiation that gets left around that is a myth, the waste is perfectly controllable and with a lot less problems than most other electrical sources. The Japanese make 63% of their electrical power with Nuclear as do the French and the Germans. The Japanese probably should be more afraid of nuclear than anyone else but yet they embrace the technology 100%. A lot of people have made an awful lot of money fear-mongering to a technophobic public and the US seems to be bent on reducing itself to a third-world debtor nation and without learning, yes learning not just reading pop-crap about technology but actually learning about it people will continue to fall prey to those fear-mongers.
Reply by PA_Notary_II on 5/13/08 6:50pm Msg #247317
Thanks, Chas for validating my point...
There are many fuels that will produce electricity, and nuclear may be the most efficient, but the point is that it is a readily available source of power that can be used to eliminate or drastically reduce the use of gasoline RIGHT NOW ! Go EV's !!
Reply by DebbieT on 5/13/08 8:29pm Msg #247326
Re: I am all for atomic energy. n/m
Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/13/08 11:39pm Msg #247352
Re: Do you think that in 1905 there was a gas station on every
My understanding is that the key problem with nuclear energy is heat pollution. Tremendous amounts of water are needed to cool the reactors and, over time, they can raise the temperature of rivers and even the ocean in areas surrounding nuclear plants. This has an impact on ocean life, from the microscopic level on up the food chain. In some parts of the world, coral reefs are being "bleached" and are dying. 'Course, there are lots of different factors influencing this.
"Of course it has to be developed but as in everything in life one finds very quickly in engineering that when you get something you have to give something up. H2 gives up very little."
I think this makes lots of sense. When alternatives become economically feasible - which includes the rising costs (monetary and otherwise) of existing methods - we will see more and more choices becoming more widely available.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/14/08 2:17am Msg #247368
I didn't mean to start a political discussion here, I just thought it was pretty funny, whether you agree with the premise or not.
FWIW, though, I believe that high gas prices can be chalked up to several things: 1) low purchasing power of the dollar, 1) increasing demand - with prevalence of gas-guzzlers over the last decade, and China and India developing more modern, industrialized societies with increasingly higher energy demands, and 3) as someone else mentioned, lack of refining capacity. I imagine there are also other factors, but I think these are the major ones.
Trying to reduce consumption - through whatever means - is probably a good idea for us all. (I'm doing my part by coasting whenever I can and putting my car in neutral while waiting at interminably long traffic lights... )
)