Posted by John Charles Gober on 5/20/08 1:23pm
Msg #247992

In need of an ENS other than NNA

I ordered Two ENS from the NNA (Virginia and Maryland). After may days and attempts and even a walk through hand holding by the NNA they cannot get the Virginia seal to export with the private key pair which is necessary to transfer my seal to my laptop using VISTA. Their suggestion is to pay again for another seal and see if it happens again.

In addition, they appear NOT to be able to handle dual ENS for those of us who are dual notaries. Kept the money for Maryland but no seal.

Is it just me or is anyone else having problems?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/08 1:33pm
Msg #247997

"Their suggestion is to pay again for another seal and see if it happens again."

Great suggestion - NOT! Why should you have to pay again. How many times will they expect you to do that!

Reply by Teresa/FL on 5/20/08 2:53pm
Msg #248013

That's ridiculous. They should either provide you with a

product that works or refund your money.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/20/08 4:06pm
Msg #248039

We do not yet have e-notarization in Virginia. I think it is supposed to be allowed beginning on July 1, 2008? But I have heard nothing recently from the Sec. of the Commonwealth about it. This thread prompted me to check the SOC notary website, and there is some new information listed there:

Message about Electronic Notaries:

Virginia law provides the Governor the authority to appoint notaries public. Even though laws were enacted to provide for persons to be commissioned as electronic notaries public and to enable them to perform electronic notarizations in Virginia, the Attorney General of Virginia has officially advised that these laws do not authorize any official or office to develop, recognize or enforce any technological standards or requirements relative to electronic notaries public or electronic notarizations. The Virginia Information Technology Authority conducted a risk assessment of proceeding to implement these laws without any technological standards or requirements and concluded that doing so would be inherently prone to fraud and would lead to an overall lack of confidence in electronic notarization in Virginia.

Based on the advice from the Attorney General of Virginia and the Virginia Information Technology Authority, the Governor has determined that commissioning anyone to perform electronic notarization will be postponed until these concerns are remedied by the General Assembly of Virginia.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/20/08 4:09pm
Msg #248041

IMHO, it's unethical for the NNA to be selling their ENS to Virginia notaries, as it is not yet authorized in this state.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/20/08 6:09pm
Msg #248082

Since when did some being unethical stop the NNA? n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 5/20/08 10:08pm
Msg #248114

You are soooooooo right! n/m

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/20/08 8:17pm
Msg #248093

This line of thinking on the Governor's part assumes that just because a law got passed, no one can do anything until the executive branch commissions electronic notaries. Maybe he's right. On the other hand, maybe any notary can perform electronic notarizations until such time as the executive orders and laws change to stop them from doing so. The governor might like to think everyone will wait for him, but that might not be the case.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 5/21/08 3:37pm
Msg #248269

Spoken like a true Vermonter!

Notary administrators want to control the process of electronic notarization and have to implement rules to do so. Until they do, E-SIGN governs.

However, it's a smart move, as someone above said, to wait until your notary administrator gives you a green light.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 5/20/08 10:16pm
Msg #248115

NotaryRotary sells ENSeals...

I got mine from NotRot. Not sure about dual commissions.
Check with NotRot Support.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/20/08 11:16pm
Msg #248134

Re: NotaryRotary electronic seal is a different animal.

Pun intended.

As I understand it (and Harry should probably make this more obvious in his marketing) the NotaryRotary electronic secure notary seal is a "high-resolution image file perfect for including in electronic documents". That's wonderful if your state allows it, and you never let the electronic document out of your control. But if you send the document to someone, they can cut and paste the seal to their heart's content (for you, that's heartburn).

The NNA Electronic notary seal is a digital certificate, similar to what you can get from Verisign; the difference is that it is issued by a different company from Verisign, the procedure to get it is different, and the procedure to revoke it is different. It can be used to sign documents with any software that uses X.509 certificates, such as Adobe Acrobat, Microsoft Word, and Outlook Express. It does not "look" like a seal; it looks like this (sample copied from Wikipedia):

Certificate:
Data:
Version: 1 (0x0)
Serial Number: 7829 (0x1e95)
Signature Algorithm: md5WithRSAEncryption
Issuer: C=ZA, ST=Western Cape, L=Cape Town, O=Thawte Consulting cc,
OU=Certification Services Division,
CN=Thawte Server CA/emailAddress=[e-mail address]
Validity
Not Before: Jul 9 16:04:02 1998 GMT
Not After : Jul 9 16:04:02 1999 GMT
Subject: C=US, ST=Maryland, L=Pasadena, O=Brent Baccala,
OU=FreeSoft, CN=www.freesoft.org/emailAddress=[e-mail address]
Subject Public Key Info:
Public Key Algorithm: rsaEncryption
RSA Public Key: (1024 bit)
Modulus (1024 bit):
00:b4:31:98:0a:c4:bc:62:c1:88:aa:dc:b0:c8:bb:
33:35:19:d5:0c:64:b9:3d:41:b2:96:fc:f3:31:e1:
66:36:d0:8e:56:12:44:ba:75:eb:e8:1c:9c:5b:66:
70:33:52:14:c9:ec:4f:91:51:70:39:de:53:85:17:
16:94:6e:ee:f4:d5:6f:d5:ca:b3:47:5e:1b:0c:7b:
c5:cc:2b:6b:c1:90:c3:16:31:0d:bf:7a:c7:47:77:
8f:a0:21:c7:4c:d0:16:65:00:c1:0f:d7:b8:80:e3:
d2:75:6b:c1:ea:9e:5c:5c:ea:7d:c1:a1:10:bc:b8:
e8:35:1c:9e:27:52:7e:41:8f
Exponent: 65537 (0x10001)
Signature Algorithm: md5WithRSAEncryption
93:5f:8f:5f:c5:af:bf:0a:ab:a5:6d:fb:24:5f:b6:59:5d:9d:
92:2e:4a:1b:8b:ac:7d:99:17:5d:cd:19:f6:ad:ef:63:2f:92:
ab:2f:4b:cf:0a:13:90:ee:2c:0e:43:03:be:f6:ea:8e:9c:67:
d0:a2:40:03:f7:ef:6a:15:09:79:a9:46:ed:b7:16:1b:41:72:
0d:19:aa:ad:dd:9a:df:ab:97:50:65:f5:5e:85:a6:ef:19:d1:
5a:de:9d:ea:63:cd:cb:cc:6d:5d:01:85:b5:6d:c8:f3:d9:f7:
8f:0e:fc:ba:1f:34:e9:96:6e:6c:cf:f2:ef:9b:bf:de:b5:22:
68:9f

Reply by WDMD on 5/21/08 7:32am
Msg #248158

"I ordered Two ENS from the NNA (Virginia and Maryland). "


How did you order ENS for Maryland and Virginia? I do not see them listed in the states that accept e-notarizations on the NNA website.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/21/08 11:33am
Msg #248196

The form at http://www.nationalnotary.org/eNotarization/index.cfm?text=eNotEns accepts Maryland and Virginia. What part of the site was WDMD looking at?

In principle, a state could "accept" many kinds of electronic signatures; there is what they allow private parties to use when they don't want to file anything with the state, there is what will work for deeds that will be recorded, and there might be various others for other kinds of paperwork filed with the state.

Reply by WDMD on 5/21/08 12:02pm
Msg #248206

"The form at http://www.nationalnotary.org/eNotarization/index.cfm?text=eNotEns accepts Maryland and Virginia. What part of the site was WDMD looking at?

In principle, a state could "accept" many kinds of electronic signatures; there is what they allow private parties to use when they don't want to file anything with the state, there is what will work for deeds that will be recorded, and there might be various others for other kinds of paperwork filed with the state."





WDMD was looking at this page.
http://www.nationalnotary.org/enotarization/index.cfm?text=ENSapply


I called the Maryland SOS and asked if Maryland notaries could legally do e-notarizations and the response I got was no. I specifically asked if a Maryland notary purchased an electronic seal from the NNA or anyone else would it be a valid notarization. Again, the answer was no.

Maybe you know something the Maryland SOS doesn't?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/21/08 12:18pm
Msg #248213

WDMD asked "Maybe you know something the Maryland SOS doesn't?" The federal E-sign law requires states to allow electronic notarizations, except in certain fields (like wills and medical forms). That law does have a complicated procedure for a state legislature to determine that electronic signatures pose too great a risk in certain situations, and to outlaw them in the situations the state finds to be risky. I wonder if the State of Maryland has jumped through the necessary hoops to outlaw electronic notarization despite the federal law?

Another possibility is that the federal E-sign law intrudes too much into the powers of the states, and parts of it will eventually be found unconstitutional. It's a really murky area.

Reply by WDMD on 5/21/08 1:36pm
Msg #248240

"The federal E-sign law requires states to allow electronic notarizations, except in certain fields (like wills and medical forms).'

Does that mean that states have to let their notaries complete electronic notarizations? I still think that I will go by what my SOS says, that Maryland notaries cannot do electronic notarizations and have them be valid.
To my knowledge states commission their own notaries and establish the rules that govern what their own notaries can and cannot do.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/21/08 2:53pm
Msg #248261

The basic idea of the E-SIGN law was that Congress thought the states were too slow to allow electronic documents to have legal effect, and also, that the few states that did address the issue did it in different ways, making it tough for nationwide companies to find a single approach that would work in all the states. So Congress, in the name of interstate commerce, specifically overrode the state laws and REQUIRED states to recognize electronic documents in many situations, including notarization.

So far, I have not heard of any case where someone thought their state was defying E-SIGN and sued the state to try to make them comply. That's basically how it works with this kind of law; we won't know what it really means until a few lawsuits make their way to the Supreme Court (I don't know about you, but I don't plan to be the one that does that).

Reply by WDMD on 5/21/08 3:48pm
Msg #248273

I don't plan on being the test case for my state either.I don't see how the NNA or anyone else could sell an electronic seal, if that is what they are doing, to anyone in a state whose own SOS says they cannot do electronic notarizations.

Reply by John Charles Gober on 5/21/08 6:18pm
Msg #248300

Ah, hear is another kicker. I have been informed by the VA SOS that just because you have an ENS from the NNA doesn't mean you have been approved by the SAS.

Didn't find that in the NNA ENS section.

Reply by John Charles Gober on 5/22/08 10:00am
Msg #248343

Below is a statement just received from the SOC of Virginia. If this is true then why is the NNA selling digital certificates which they knew notaries may never be able to use?

Anyone want to buy a bridge!!!

Beginning of quote.
"Mr. Gober,

The Commonwealth of Virginia has nothing to do with the National Notary
Association. They, in no way issue, anything on our behalf. They
basically are in the notary supply business and have no authority over
notaries. If you will see from our website we will not be ready for
electronic notary this July 1 www.commonwealth.virginia.gov
<' target='_blank'>http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/>

Betsy



Betsy G. Anderson

Director of International Authentications/Notary Public Division

Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth"
End of quote.