Posted by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 2:16pm
Msg #246154

In response to all the feedback

Thank you for all the feedback. NNS has decided not to cut our fees paid to notaries. We will look elsewhere to cut costs. Also I will be looking into the direct deposit that one notary has suggested as a way to pay notaries faster. Thank you.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/3/08 5:53pm
Msg #246171

Direct deposit is ludicrous

In order to receive a direct deposit, the recipient must give the bank account number to the payer. Based on what I've read about signing agencies in this board, a notary who gives a bank account number to a signing service is way too gullible to be a notary. I mean, if you don't trust them to pay, you're going to solve the problem by sending them your BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER?! Get real!

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 6:06pm
Msg #246172

Re: Direct deposit is ludicrous

Bank fraud is a serious federal offense. I agree with you. The only way I would feel comfortable doing this is if it is for a notary that I've had a long relationship with. But a notary suggested it and we will look into it. This is not something I would offer to all.

Reply by Kathy/ID on 5/3/08 6:18pm
Msg #246174

Paypal would solve the DD issue IMO

I agree with the direct deposit issue. Paypal is a way around this. The notary does not give any sensitive info to the SS. Then the Notary can either transfer the money to the bank account or use the debit card they have for business accounts. On some of the other stuff I do I get paid via paypal and have a debit card for it and it works great.

Reply by OR on 5/4/08 2:06am
Msg #246197

Re: Paypal ...IMO takes too long

They can take 3 to 5 business days to deposit the money to pay pal and 3 to 5 business days to bank. A check in the snail mail is faster. Unless you have a pay pal debit card and it still takes 3 to 5 days to a debit card.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/4/08 9:15am
Msg #246211

I DID NOT SUGGEST IT

I mentioned that one client of mine does it - I also said it wasn't a consideration in working for them. I also stated that payment within 2 weeks is still common in this business and nothing 'new' that you're offering. I further stated that "payment in 2 weeks" as a selling point is probably nothing that experienced closers look at.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 5/4/08 9:31am
Msg #246213

Agreed, I look at 'WILL' I get paid more than 'When' n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 5/4/08 9:40am
Msg #246215

and WHAT I will be paid

I would rather receive $150 is 30 days than $75 in 2 weeks for the exact same work - just a little oddity of mine.

Again, not trying to rock the boat but earlier in the week this guy said emphatically to ignore the quoted $50 fee for his 15,000 title companies. Saturday a.m., 2 days before his 'grand opening' he tells us that in reality his fee is $50 and, oops, he doesn't have 15,000 title companies. Now he says forget that, fees will be higher - although no mention of a base. Getting awfully close to the 'grand opening' to be working on basics such as pricing. AND, why is he even asking our input - he should know what it costs to hire the experience he wants and he should know what it takes his business (and yes, profit) to run so his numbers should have been worked out a while ago. Again, just not understanding.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/08 9:59am
Msg #246218

Let's not lose sight of the fact that back in March

he posted here that "E-closers" were needed (Msg. #240771) -

Hope this isn't his $75 assignment. MHO

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/4/08 10:16am
Msg #246221

Re: and WHAT I will be paid

This is not a Grand Opening, rather a new venture. I do know my business very well. I read all the time notaries complaining about not getting paid. We've been in business for 7 years. Right now I close 1000 loans per month. I plan on that figure increasing 10 fold.There are over 12,000 notaries in my system. Our base is not $75, I was requesting feedback because a couple of my customers claim they pay fees that low in certain states. As you read the other day, notaries that have worked for NNS agree that our fee is fair. You say you get $150 for signings. Is this from a small, local TC? How many loans do you receive a month? The market does not support this fee anymore. You can blame the NNA or the economy but companies will not pay this fee anymore.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 5/4/08 10:24am
Msg #246223

If you get THAT many signings, then surely

you can do discounts for yourself and pass the savings on to us. If, as you say, the market no longer supports what we need for our time, supplies and travel expenses, then they will end up losing business as eventually even the lowball notaries will realize a loss.

Then the title companies can go back to the joys of arranging late night and weekend hours to try to accommodate the borrowers who aren't able to make it into the office for one reason or another. - That IS how we got started in the first place isn't it? It is so incredibly easy for us notaries to look at the pay offered, realize that we will lose money and then just say No.

Telling me I can lose money on this signing or stay home and NOT lose money is a pretty simple choice.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/4/08 10:34am
Msg #246224

Re: If you get THAT many signings, then surely

Lose money? Does it really cost $25 to print docs? If a signing is within 10-15 minutes of your home and lasts for 45 minutes, can you please explain to me how much it actually costs? I agree if travel is involved or if the package is huge, the fee should be increased. But what is the break-even point. I'm not trying to be difficult, the info you give me will be carefully reviewed.

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 11:02am
Msg #246227

Lose money? Does it really cost ....

<<<Lose money? Does it really cost $25 to print docs? >>>

If you are charging your cost, you are in the hole ! This is not a non-profit business.

You seem to think you have broken down the notary cost (?) so I’m guessing you have the notary net profit calculated, yes? By your calculations, rounded off and/or converted to hours, what do you think the notary is making (net profit) per hour and at what fee (your fee structure) for edocs?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/4/08 11:08am
Msg #246229

Re: If you get THAT many signings, then surely


No, the actual cost of the signing is lower. However a signing agent needs to make a profit. And they should make more than the signing service on the signing. If a signing service cannot get at least $150 per signing then they are dealing with the wrong title companies.

I have stated before, and I will say it again. A signing agent should be getting a minimum of $100 for overnight docs and $135 for edocs.
The day I cannot pay a signing agent those fees is the day I will shut up shop!

Heck, before the gas price increase I was paying $75 for overnight docs and $110 for edocs, and I have been paying that since 2003. I increased the signing fee from $75 to $100 when gas prices were raised a couple of years ago. Other signing services were lowering their fees when I raised mine.

Oh - and I pay full fee even if the borrower refuses to sign.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 5/4/08 11:10am
Msg #246230

Okay, I get a call at 2pm for a signing....

Now I have to wait for the docs to get here. 1 1/2 to two hours later I get the e-mail. Start printing, 250 pages, another for borrower. Go through initial stack to make sure docs were printed correctly and that the key element are there as making sure that nothing else is there. I was sent the wrong package before for a different state for a divorce, so I had to wait again. Get to borrowers by 5ish and then find out that they want to look over all the paperwork, add to that 20+ notarizations. Home by 8pm and start with all the fax backs, which means rifling through again and placing markers where each fax back belongs because the papers need to remain in order. Now it's too late for fed ex so get up in the morning and drive to town to drop package. One typical signing (for me anyway) can run 6+ hours when you take all the time involved into consideration.


For those of us that are rural, there is no such thing as a signing 10-15 minutes away. High capacity toner cartridges give what 5,000 pages, after four or five of those it's replace the drum or buy a whole new laser printer.

As has been pointed out so many times, break down our costs (paper, toner, printer, licenses, gasoline, car repairs, stamps, embossers, folders, invoices, taxes....), that all shaves a bit off the top for us. Now take what is left and divide by the hours spent on each signing and it is sometimes not very flattering at all when you take into consideration that we are handling extremely personal financial information on people who's very living conditions require that we do our job timely and accurately. If we don't, someone could lose a house or have to pay more to have docs redrawn.

When I do a signing for someone, I take it deadly serious because of that and I have not had a go back yet.
I expect compensation for the time and concern spent, as well as my supplies. Personally, If I can't make a REASONABLE profit, it's not worth the stress to make sure it's done right, so I will refuse the job.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/4/08 11:56am
Msg #246235

Re: Okay, I get a call at 2pm for a signing....

Rural areas are different. You should be compensated. Personally I haven't had any loans that are 250 pages. If that is the case, you should be compensated. I am cc'd on all docs so when I see the docs going to the notary, I call to let them know. If a closing is going to be late, I require the TC to let me know well in advance. I in turn call the notary and let them know. They are told if they get a request for another signing, take it and let me know. I will find someone else if they aren't available when docs finally arive. They will get the first call just to make sure. No notary should be required to wait around all day. If that notary can't sign the loan this time, I make sure they are the first one to be called for the next.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/08 11:54am
Msg #246234

Lose money? Yep...

**Lose money? Does it really cost $25 to print docs? **

If a notary can be making money at $25 rather than giving a break to a make you happy then yes! If they let you cut their fee they are losing money. Doesn't take a PhD to figure that one out.

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/4/08 12:10pm
Msg #246238

Re: Lose money? Yep...

When the mortgage industry was booming, that was fine. They are looking at every fee now. They are cutting costs everywhere. You really need to realize this. TC will find a way to bring their costs down when they are being forced to lower their fees. I know you've heard about the big push for e-signings. Do you think companies would be spending all kind of money to make a signing more expensive? If they were happy with your fees would they be pushing for this?

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 12:24pm
Msg #246241

Re: Lose money? Yep...

Esignings are not being pushed to cut notary fees.... that's a ridiculous statement.

It's a paper/printing cost and send/receive/time convenience for the lender.

And I don't know any title co that is cutting "their" fees in my area. They however may be cutting SS fees because you've got the newbie SS's lowballing causing lower bottom line BS, much the same as the pro notary is dealing with in the wake of chump change notaries....

Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/4/08 12:33pm
Msg #246243

Re: Lose money? Yep...

That was my point, does it really cost $25 to print docs? I know all TC's are being forced to cut their fees. Texas must be a different world.

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 12:54pm
Msg #246247

What's your point?

That was my point, does it really cost $25 to print docs

______________
This thread is getting tangled.... what's your point?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Some think that the “waiting around for docs” 1-2 hours prior to signing is not a cost or that you are not “working” (?) . I’m not in my PJ’s, I have not taken my makeup off, popped a cold one, started dinner, or started mowing the lawn…. I’m working. It’s part of MY cost.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 5/4/08 12:57pm
Msg #246248

Re: What's your point?: TIME is Money n/m

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 1:02pm
Msg #246251

Re: What's your point?: TIME is Money--Yep

and why can't a SS see this?

Reply by Teresa/FL on 5/4/08 12:30pm
Msg #246242

Esignings are designed to save time and overnight shipping

costs. The lender has access to the signed docs immediately and does not have to wait for overnight shipping. The TC saves on overnight shipping costs. Even if they do have to ship some documents, the package is lighter so their costs are lower.

A time savings for the lender does not, in my experience, equate to a time or money savings for the person providing the signing service.

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 12:43pm
Msg #246244

Re: Esignings are designed to save time and overnight shipping

A time savings for the lender does not, in my experience, equate to a time or money savings for the person providing the signing service.

______________________________________________
Not in my experience either.

As far as shipping cost, the title company does not pay this cost from "their" fee.. the borrower is paying shipping. And if the cost for courier is less, it's not by much if any. They still have all the certified copies to send to the lender and this has always been the majority of the weight to the package.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/4/08 2:04pm
Msg #246258

Re: Esignings are designed to save time and overnight shipping

I suspect the main savings from Esignings is that more of the process is under computer control, so the lender and title company experience fewer mistakes that have to be corrected, and their employees don't have to spend as much time reading paper documents, looking for possible mistakes.

I also suspect they may evenually run into the following problem: the computer asks the borrower a question, and the borrower can only answer A or B, although the real answer is C. Since the borrower can't write the true answer by hand, the borrower picks the answer that seems closer. For example, the computer asks the borrower if he/she is married or not. The true answer is the borrower is in a civil union, but the computer hasn't been programmed to think about that. The borrower answers no, and when the loan goes into default and they bank tries to foreclose, they can't because the civil union partner didn't sign the mortgage.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 5/5/08 12:53pm
Msg #246353

Re: Lose money? Yep...

**When the mortgage industry was booming, that was fine. They are looking at every fee now. They are cutting costs everywhere. You really need to realize this. TC will find a way to bring their costs down when they are being forced to lower their fees.**

They are not cutting fees EVERYWHERE. Borrowers are not seeing any sort of break in closing costs and the charges/fees/costs charged by TCs and lenders. Additionally, appraisals are still $300-$350--the same fee from four years ago. Instead of cutting my fees, I have actually raised them to offset the increase of doing business -- which is exactly why I'm still in business, and yes, still getting calls. I'm very selective of who I will work for. My low ball competition that slit my throat by 60% or more, have now been forced to take J-O-B's.

When I see BOs getting some sort of relief from a drop in TC/lender closing costs and the cost of an appraisal dropping, then and only then will I play ball with the likes of you and others like you.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 5/5/08 2:26pm
Msg #246362

Re: And furthermore ...

you haven't the slightest idea how to figure the cost of doing business otherwise you wouldn't be asking over and over "is it really $20, $25 whatever do print a loan package?" You think if you ask over and over that someone will tell you how to calculate YOUR true business costs.

If all someone is looking at is to break even, they might as well quit right now. Case in point - Chevron just reported $5.17 BILLION in profit for January-April 2008--while the CEO/Chairman earned a salary of $1.65 million in 2007 with his total compensation for the year at $31.5 million.

Quite honestly, it's beyond me why any person would start up or take over or whatever you are calling it today a Signing Service.

Reply by Nomad/OR on 5/4/08 10:42am
Msg #246225

To borrow a phrase :-) Sixth grade math

If you are indeed getting 1000 signings a month, then if you are only getting $10 per signing (which I strongly doubt) you are taking in $10,000+ a month. You expect that to increase ten fold....

Unless you operate out of an office in San Francisco's Financial district, you are doing pretty well for yourself.
One of my best clients operates out of her house (low overhead) and pays extremely well, she has never complained about only making $10 a signing.

I don't believe you.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/5/08 2:06pm
Msg #246361

Nomad - I disagree...

I'm pretty sure that is 5th grade math.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/5/08 12:01pm
Msg #246350

Re: and WHAT I will be paid

...Is this from a small, local TC? How many loans do you receive a month? The market does not support this fee anymore. ...

I have never worked for a local tc, small or large.

April - +/- 69
May - 15 scheduled so far

The market DOES support this fee if notaries and signing services alike would stop low balling.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/5/08 12:09pm
Msg #246351

Re: and WHAT I will be paid

** The market does not support this fee anymore. You can blame the NNA or the economy but companies will not pay this fee anymore.**

Either you are really in the dark, or you are trying to blow smoke up our collective skirts.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 5/5/08 10:49am
Msg #246341

Re: Direct deposit is ludicrous

let them p0ay us thru pay pal

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/3/08 8:14pm
Msg #246182

You do know your bank account number

is on the bottom of every check you write? There's nothing wrong with giving it to a signing service for direct deposit, you've already given it to thousands of other people already.

Reply by John_NorCal on 5/3/08 10:20pm
Msg #246195

There you go again Cali...........

simplicity in its purest form! As you say, a checking account number is on every check we send out. I don't understand the reluctance to set up direct deposit either. The only thing that I would add to this is that it should be a deposit only scenario, no permission should be given to take back any funds for any reason.

Reply by Roger_OH on 5/3/08 7:47pm
Msg #246181

Glad to see you've reconsidered. I hope you'll take the next step and offer your companies the best service available, by many of the best notaries around. Rise above the hundreds of SS that cater to $50 notaries; offer your clients a standard of excellence, and a quality product for a fair price. Their number one concerns are accuracy and a positive experience for the borrowers. Explain to them that your stable of people can deliver that, but like anything else, there's a premium associated with using the best and ensuring that quality. Their alternative is lower fees, more errors, and in the long run, increased costs and lost goodwill all around. Stand your ground and refuse to be grouped in with the lowball masses, and eventually you will be recognized as one of the industry leaders who refused to compromise on quality. Screen your notaries carefully and maintain a high standard of excellence for those you select; if they fail to meet your quality standards, replace them with those that will.

As noted, you have a chance to truly make a difference, or end up in the already full Boot Hill cemetery of SS that went belly-up by going the cheap route.

**POP** Wow, what a dream I had!! That a company could actually treat notaries as equal partners, and realize they must depend upon each other for mutual success!! Must've been the magaritas last night during the Cubs' extra-inning loss...

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/3/08 8:32pm
Msg #246189

I like the idea of direct deposit over Paypal anyday.

Reply by OR on 5/4/08 2:01am
Msg #246196

I like it a lot too I have a company that I do business with that does that and every tuesday I get paid. It is simple. The thing is they can deposit but there is no way they can take any money out. Some of the internet fax companys did an auto withdraw and I put a stop to that. To get a direct deposit you have fill out a Authoriztion Agreement Form

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/4/08 5:08am
Msg #246202

Soooo...what ARE 'your' fees?

I must remind you that, as Independent Contractors, they really are "our fees". And--I know this is hard for you--but they are going to vary by far too many factors to list. One size does not fit all.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/4/08 7:41am
Msg #246205

I'm glad you had an opportunity to re-think that. I certainly would not have considered working with anyone who was striving to cut costs at my expense. It's kind of like those notaries that think they will cut out giving the borrower a copy of the docs to save money!