Posted by Linda Juenger on 5/17/08 2:09pm
Msg #247709

Just need to vent

I don't mind working on Sat's at all. Hubby works, so it doesn't matter to me. BUT....
Why isn't their anyone available when we are at the table if there are questions? Burns me to no end that they don't give us an "after hours number" if we need it. Didn't think ahead of time to ask for one, so its partly my fault.
Also, today I cannot drop the pkg because on an aff there is both an ack and jurat. I guess they want ME to choose which one to use, which of course I can't/won't. So, since they are not available today to call, it will have to wait till Monday to ask and drop the docs. Their loss IMO. Sorry and thanks.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/17/08 2:48pm
Msg #247710

<< ...today I cannot drop the pkg because on an aff there is both an ack and jurat. I guess they want ME to choose which one to use, which of course I can't/won't. >>

When I have those I complete both and send it in.

Reply by christiSocal on 5/17/08 2:51pm
Msg #247711

If it's Texas

They usually have both. But whatever state, I agreed, fill both in and drop.

Reply by christiSocal on 5/17/08 2:52pm
Msg #247712

Oops, should be "agree"... n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/17/08 3:56pm
Msg #247715

Re: Oops, should be "agree"...

I thought about completing both, but didn't know if that was the right thing to do. Wish I would have done that now. This is a first for this. Too late now. Pick up time has passed for a Sat. Does anyone know why they have both? If that's what they want is to have both filled out, or if they want one or the other they need to put that in the instructions. I don't like assuming that's what they want. The 1st 3 letters of assume is A**.

Reply by GA/Atty on 5/17/08 3:52pm
Msg #247714

Generally the jurat should be used if the borrower signed

in your presence, and the acknowledgement should be used if the borrower came to you with the doc already signed and affirmed that it was in fact his signature.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/17/08 4:17pm
Msg #247716

Re: Generally the jurat should be used if the borrower signed

I don't want to risk the TC coming back to me and saying that I should have completed both certificates, and I need to correct on my dime. If both certificates were included on the doc, then I assume they want both completed. Of course what GA/Atty says makes sense, but I try not to guess at what they want if there is a simpler solution available to me, which is completing both certificates. That way, it is 100% complete and I don't have to worry about it after the package leaves my hands.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/17/08 7:49pm
Msg #247729

Re: Generally the jurat should be used if the borrower signed

Sorry, an acknowledgment can be signed in front of the notary.
Why would one attach a jurat if the borrower (or any signer) was not swearing to facts in the document?

A jurat is for an oath (sworn and subscribed to)

I have clients coming to me all the time that sign their document(s) in front of me and they are not all jurats.

Reply by GA/Atty on 5/17/08 8:53pm
Msg #247731

Affidavits are, by definition, given under oath..........

The question was specifically about an affidavit.

If it has both a jurat section and an acknowledgement section, generally speaking, the borrower should sign the jurat. As was pointed out, it should do no harm at all to sign the acknowledgement as well.

As to acknowledgements in general (on non-affidavits), borrowers can certainly sign them in front of notaries. But when you notarize the document, you usually are swearing that the signer affirmed (acknowledged) his signature before you, whether he actually signed it in your presence or not.

I am just referring to a general acknowledgement section that one would see attached to the end of some document, not a situation where the borrower is acknowledging some particular information given in the body of the document itself.

Reply by Mung/CA on 5/18/08 2:08am
Msg #247740

I have done both for Texas n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/18/08 3:07am
Msg #247741

Re: Affidavits are, by definition, given under oath..........

I often see documents titled "Affidavit" with what is clearly an acknowledgement certificate attached. My state prohibits me from deciding what type of notarization to do, so I give them what they ask for. Never been a problem. I go by the language in the notary block - and if it said both "sworn to..." and "acknowledged before me...", I would also probably provide both.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 5/18/08 12:46am
Msg #247738

Re: Generally the jurat should be used if the borrower signed

It is common in Texas for some documents to bear both acknowledgements and jurats. If both are not executed, they will be returned to the signing agent for execution. Doesn't do any good to argue the purposes of the respective certifications.

Reply by GA/Atty on 5/18/08 8:51am
Msg #247753

Ultimately I guess the answer is whatever the TC wants

I have never filled out both on the same document, but I think I very well might from now on.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 5/18/08 5:43am
Msg #247742

The jurat and acknowledgement serve two different purposes. Through the jurat the signatory attests to the tuth of the statement to which he/she deposes in the document. Through the acknowledgement he/she attests that he/she is in fact the signatory and that his/her signature is the product of his/her free act and deed.

Reply by PAW on 5/18/08 6:46am
Msg #247743

Absolutely, Kevin. Since they are two separate and distinct functions and serve different purposes, you may find both certificates on one document. As Hugh stated, it is fairly common. Though I don't find it as a common occurrence here in Florida, I do see it from time to time. I just complete them both and be on my way.

Just as an FYI for Florida notaries, FSA §117.03 states: "Administration of oaths.—A notary public may administer an oath and make a certificate thereof when it is necessary for the execution of any writing or document to be published under the seal of a notary public. The notary public may not take an acknowledgment of execution in lieu of an oath if an oath is required."

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/18/08 7:21am
Msg #247744

Re: Just need to vent - simple explanation for both

Suppose that it is an affidavit which may need to be recorded in the future.

The affidavit requires a jurat.

The county clerk wants to see an acknowledgment on the documents they accept for recording.

Both types of notarial acts covers all the bases.

It makes things go smoother.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/18/08 1:00pm
Msg #247775

What do you do

with those FL documents that start off "first, being duly sworn" and end with "and did not take an oath"? Jurat or acknowledgment? I used to see them all the time with packages from TCT in FL, and got different responses depending on who I asked.

Reply by PAW on 5/18/08 7:52pm
Msg #247796

Re: What do you do

My legal adviser told me that if a document, such as an affidavit, requires the signer to be sworn under oath, then by statute, I must place the signer under oath and they must swear or affirm to the truthfulness of the document. After which, I must affix my signature and stamp to a jurat certifying that the oath (or affirmation) was given to the signer and an affirmative response was given by the signer.